What are all the colors,in order?

[ClantyreSheltie]

We only have three different alleles of a single gene to determine color; sable, black with tan points, black without tan points. Labs/Poodles have multiple genes that determine color. The chart is pretty big for them.

If you think of Sheltie colors as three different pots, it's easier.

Color (brown or black)
Modification (merle or non-merle)
White (piebald, white factoring, irish pattern)

It all inherits separately, so you can pretty much have any combination.

 

[Narmowen]

We only have three different alleles of a single gene to determine color; sable, black with tan points, black without tan points. Labs/Poodles have multiple genes that determine color. The chart is pretty big for them.

If you think of Sheltie colors as three different pots, it's easier.

Color (brown or black)
Modification (merle or non-merle)
White (piebald, white factoring, irish pattern)

It all inherits separately, so you can pretty much have any combination.

Looks simple, and it kind of is.

You have 3 "base colors". Bi black, tri color & sable.

You have modifications: the merling gene & white factoring. & the Irish pattern (which most Shelties have.)

Pure for sable = ay/ay = can only produce sables
Tri-factored Sable = mahogony sable = shaded sable = ay/at = can produce sables and tri's
Bi-factored sable = ay/a = can produce sables or bi's
Tri-color = at/at = can produce tri's
Bi factored tri color = at/a = can produce bi's & tri's
Blue merle = at/at M/m = can produce tri's & merles
Bi Blue merle = a/a M/m = can produce bi's & merles
Bi-factored blue merle = at/a M/m = can produce bi's, merles & tri's
Bi black = a/a = can produce bi's
Pure for Sable merle = ay/ay M/m = can produce only sables or merles
Tri-factored sable merle = ay/at M/m can produce sables, tri's or merles
Bi-factored sable merle = ay/a M/m = can produce sables, merles or bi's
Double blue merle = at/at M/M = can produce only merles
Double bi blue merle = a/a M/M = can produce only bi's & merles
Double pure for Sable merle = ay/ay M/M = can produce sables & merles
Double tri-factored Sable merle = ay/at M/M = can produce sables, tri's, merles
Double bi-factored Sable Merle = ay/a M/M = can produce sables, bi's Merles

ay/a (bi-factored sable and white) and "breed" her to any dog on there. Let's go with a tri-factored sable and white (ay/at). So, you could get pure-for-sables (ay/ay), you could get bi-factored sable and white's (ay/a), you could get bi-factored tri color (at/a).

It only takes 1 sable gene for the dog to be sable, since it's a dominant gene. It takes 1 gene for a dog to produce a tri-color or a bi-color (called bi or tri factored), but 2 genes for a dog to BE a tri-color or bi-color (like a/a or at/at). Merling (and white factoring) is like sable and white, 1 gene for the dog to be a merle, but 2 genes for the dog to be a double, or homozygous merle.


I've noticed, the more I go on, that Sheltie colors are like horse colors (which is to say that the genes are done in the same manner, like they usually are!) Except, IMO, horse colors are harder because of the wider range of colors (much like looking at a whole, much like looking at dog colors as a whole instead of looking at just Shelties.)

Horses have 2 base colors: Black *dominant* (E) & red (e).

Then they have modifications: Bay (several kinds, A, At, A+), Gray (G) & Dun (D).

Then they have dilutes: Cream *palomino, buckskin, smokey black* (Cr), Pearl (Prl), Silver *related to the merling in dogs* (Z) & Champagne (Cmpg *this is not the right letters for that*)

You can only have 1 base color. You can have all modifications. You can have most dilutes. By that, I mean the genes. You can have a black horse Ee with Bay *agouti* AA, with dun Dd, with cream CrCr. So far, we have a perlino. Then, you add silver Zz. So now we have a Silver perlino.

Pearl is on the same allele as cream, so you can either have 1 cream 1 pearl, 2 creams no pearl or 2 pearls (or none of either of them). Except for pearl & cream, you can have dilute & modification on dilute & modification. It wouldn't be easy, but it would be possible.

 

[Smudge]

How do you tell if a tri sheltie is bi or tri factored? I know Smudge is white factored, because the front part of him is all white. I don't know how to tell what Fluffy is though. It's so confusing!

 

[Lightplum]

Correct me if im wrong but a tri shelties is just that tri factored. As far as white factored you cant tell by how much white is on the front of the sheltie you can only tell if they have the white running up the stifle of the rear leg on either or both sides. I have one white factored male who even though both parents were non-white factored it must have been(which I know) back in his pedigree that pulled it out. He only has one white stifle...on the judge side of course...

 

[Smudge]

Correct me if im wrong but a tri shelties is just that tri factored. As far as white factored you cant tell by how much white is on the front of the sheltie you can only tell if they have the white running up the stifle of the rear leg on either or both sides. I have one white factored male who even though both parents were non-white factored it must have been(which I know) back in his pedigree that pulled it out. He only has one white stifle...on the judge side of course...

Ah! Ok. I think I get it now. I think.

There was another thread along time ago that said something about white on the leg meaning the dog was white factored, and I assumed they meant the front legs.

 

[labgirl]

What does bi-factored, tri-factored or white-factored mean, please?

And am I right in saying that a blue merle is actually a tri-colour which has the merling gene?

 

[tofu pup]

How do you tell if a tri sheltie is bi or tri factored? I know Smudge is white factored, because the front part of him is all white. I don't know how to tell what Fluffy is though. It's so confusing!

My understanding is that "bi-factored" tris will have darker, smuttier, smaller tan markings than non-bi-factored. I know that Collies don't have the bicolor gene (bicolor collies just don't exist) and Collies tend to have big, clear tan markings.

Here's an ad with a photo of what I would consider a bi-factored tri. And here is one for a dog (on the right) who is definitely not bi-factored. At the same time, it's not totally an either/or... there are a lot of gradations in between "small and dark" and "big and clear" (the dog on the left in the second ad is an example... less tan on the face than on the right, but still lots more than on the bitch in the first ad).

Your Fluffy looks non-bi-factored to me: see how bright and clear and big her tan is?

 

[tofu pup]

What does bi-factored, tri-factored or white-factored mean, please?

And am I right in saying that a blue merle is actually a tri-colour which has the merling gene?

You're definitely right about the blue merles. Likewise, a bi-blue is a bicolored dog with the merling gene.

"White-factored" refers to how much white the dog has... a dog with very little white (non-white-factored) may have no white on the face, just a little on the chest, little white toes, and a few white hairs on the end of the tail. A white-factored dog would have full white collar, white on the face, white up all four legs (and, most tellingly, up the stifle) and a big white tail-tip. A really white-factored dog would be a color-headed white. Breeding two white-factored dogs together increases the risk of producing a CHW (perfectly healthy dogs, but more than 100% white and so not acceptable for the show-ring).

"Bi-factored" and "tri-factored" mean that the dog is expressing the black gene (with or without tan points), but may or may not be black. A bi- or tri-factored sable is a "shaded" or "mahogany" sable, often with one pure-for-sable parent and one black parent. Black dogs can be tri- or bi-factored, too (see above).

Here's a (not-great, the floor was slippery!) photo of Sophie, one of our dogs. She is VERY white-factored, with a collar that goes into her shoulders and front legs and big white swathes up her stifles. Breeding her to a dog with an equal amount of white would be very likely to produce color-headed white puppies.

 

[Smudge]

My understanding is that "bi-factored" tris will have darker, smuttier, smaller tan markings than non-bi-factored. I know that Collies don't have the bicolor gene (bicolor collies just don't exist) and Collies tend to have big, clear tan markings.

Here's an ad with a photo of what I would consider a bi-factored tri. And here is one for a dog (on the right) who is definitely not bi-factored. At the same time, it's not totally an either/or... there are a lot of gradations in between "small and dark" and "big and clear" (the dog on the left in the second ad is an example... less tan on the face than on the right, but still lots more than on the bitch in the first ad).

Your Fluffy looks non-bi-factored to me: see how bright and clear and big her tan is?

So in other words a tri that looks like a bi black is bi factored? Kind of like Sca?

 

[tofu pup]

So in other words a tri that looks like a bi black is bi factored? Kind of like Sca?

Yes, I'd say Sca is bi-factored. But it's not that he looks like a bi-black (because if he did, he'd be black and white with no tan) - it's just that his tan markings are smaller and darker. Compare his face to Fluffy's - the tan on her muzzle goes all the way back to her throat and up her face to her eyes, whereas the tan marking on Sca's face is much smaller and darker.