what is a puppy mill?

[Caro]

You cannot seriously tell me that somebody from the ASSA wrote some of that garbage.

People get on my scratching nerves. I understand that all breeding is not bad, but don't you dare suggest that the woman who sold me Smudge had good intentions because there's no "legal term for a puppymill".

I agree - its just ridiculous to say that something does not exist because it is not enshrined in legislation. Is she really saying there are no puppy mills?!

I am on the other side of the world and I can tell you there are such things as puppymills. Our RSPCA is fighting against them, police raid them, and people are lobbying against them. It isnt a lot different to the debate over cage, barn and free range hens. They arent even pets and we are still moving away from inappropriate ways of farming animals without it being enshrined in legislation.

I am amazed that anyone can say 'overpopulation' is just rhetoric!

As for the ASSA - no idea who they are, but they certainly dont paint a very good light from where I stand. Are they the anti-animal rights brigade?

 

[Chris]

Actually, I couldn't have said it better myself (and I'm a card-carrying vegan). As much as these groups claim that they are working "for the animals", their sexist, splashy tactics do nothing but obfuscate the issues and, ultimately, hurt more animals than they help. As a community, responsible dog breeders have been trained to see anyone who wants to change anything about the way dogs are treated in this country as the enemy. There's no dialogue, there's no logic, we're just expected to attack full-on when any criticism is voiced.

Ultimately, the AKC speaks from both sides of its mouth - on the one hand, they promote "responsible" breeding, encourage those thinking about breeding their dogs to "breed to improve", and have a long history of supporting breeders who carefully select healthy, conformationally-correct stock. On the other hand, they gladly take the money that Hunte and Petland provide as they pump out dogs with no particular standards about genetic health or conformation. (Do YOU think that a "Hunte Corporation professional Breeder" is going to shell out $120 for a vWD test? How about annual CERF testing? OFA films at 2? Doubtful. Hunte has "comprehensive musculoskeletal criteria for accepting puppies from breeders by creating a various grades for knees, hips, heart murmurs, and other health conditions", but that's only for the puppies. There;s an economic incentive for their suppliers to test, but I don't think it's a big one.)

Ultimately, there are huge changes that I think we, as a hobby breeder community, need to make in order to take charge of our governing body. Unfortunately, we remain mired in the status quo, and, because of the moral hypocrisy of the AKC, truly vulnerable to attack by those who say we don't have dogs' best interests at heart. The AKC has been hemorraging cash for a while now, and the next few decades (and the decisions made within them) will be vital to the survival of the hobby.

Very eloquently stated. Thanks for your wise words!

 

[JessicaR]

Caro, ASSA is the American Shetland Sheepdog Association

Smudge, I'm sorry I know how you feel about puppy mills, I just thought it was an interesting article and thought others might want to see it. I did'nt mean to start any problems.

tofupup, I think you hit the nail on the head!!

I believe that even if reputable breeders did increase the numbers of litters they have there will still be those people out there that will buy that "puppy in the window" Or puppies from back yard breeders. I have to say with my very limited experience of breeding (my first and last litter) People didnt care about my dog's or the sire's show records. I had to tell them about health testing. All they cared about was so and so in the paper had puppies for a lot cheaper. they didnt care about all that other stuff because they just want a pet.

It all boils down to better education to the public, but you can only do so much when people dont want to listen.

 

[Emmasmom]

After I lost Noah, my boss asked me why I would go for a purebreed again, why not a mutt. I told him I knew the breed, knew their nature. With a mutt, you have no idea what you are getting, what characteristics are there, what the background is, etc. I felt I wanted a dog from a breeder who knew what she was doing and cared about her animals, cared enough for a home visit prior to final approval. It is unfortunate that there are people out there who do buy the puppy in the window. Our family has been there, done that and had good and bad dog.

It is also unfortunate that people who are so vocal about animals don't get all the facts and present their limited facts as truth. I have seen the news here in Ontario about the puppy mills they have raided and closed down. But nothing stops them from opening up again in another location. Demand breeds supply.

 

[dawns2shelties]

petshoppuppies.org

I found this website recently and commend this woman she's done alot of research to try and educate the public. Just thought some of you may want to take a look at it.

 

[romeosangiovese]

I don't care what you want to call it but the breeding of dogs (mass or otherwise) in appalling conditions without care for their health or the health of the puppies is prevalent everywhere and needs to go.

I found out that the puppy mill we want to shut down (since Jan this year) is owned by a man who used to show his dogs. I wonder what happened along the way.

We have a HUGE problem with supply here and considering the list of breeders for all breeds in my country probably doesn't even fill one side of a sheet of paper, almost all the dogs come from petshops who buy from local puppy mills/BYBs or overseas puppymills. I keep telling people who want shelties to adopt or buy from responsible breeders but the local ones don't always have litters, shelties are adopted out very fast (and there are so few that turn up in a year), and good overseas breeders don't like exporting. What a pickle!

 

[Caro]

Caro, ASSA is the American Shetland Sheepdog Association

That's even sadder. I doubt Shelties are defined in legislation either - so what are these fluffy little things at my feet

I know its a catch-22 with exporting pure breds to Singapore because so many breeders have had dogs end up in puppy mills. So good breeders in Australia are too scared to export and it leaves a gap for the dodgy breeders who export to feed into the dodgy practises. Its a shame because there are enough good shelties over here to export to other markets.

Over here the trend for 'designer' breeds really has been fed by the puppy mill market, otherwise there isnt enough demand.

 

[Smudge]

so what are these fluffy little things at my feet

I TOLD you not to skip out on sweeping your floors! Who knows what they are?!

 

[Ainsley's mom]

Caro, ASSA is the American Shetland Sheepdog Association

Smudge, I'm sorry I know how you feel about puppy mills, I just thought it was an interesting article and thought others might want to see it. I did'nt mean to start any problems.

tofupup, I think you hit the nail on the head!!

I believe that even if reputable breeders did increase the numbers of litters they have there will still be those people out there that will buy that "puppy in the window" Or puppies from back yard breeders. I have to say with my very limited experience of breeding (my first and last litter) People didnt care about my dog's or the sire's show records. I had to tell them about health testing. All they cared about was so and so in the paper had puppies for a lot cheaper. they didnt care about all that other stuff because they just want a pet.

It all boils down to better education to the public, but you can only do so much when people dont want to listen.

I think you make a very good point. I have talked to a lot of people who have said that they aren't going to buy from a show breeder because their puppies are too expensive, and besides they don't want a show dog anyhow just a pet. If they would just talk to a show breeder they would find that the price for pet puppies isn't necessarily higher than they would pay for that pet store pup, and a lot cheaper if you figure in vet costs and heartache is something goes wrong with the dog.

I was a little strapped for cash when I bought Ainsley. The breeder came way down in price because she felt that I would give her the sort of home that the breeder wanted for her. She turned down several higher offers because she was mostly concerned with the welfare of the dog. I would be embarrassed to tell you how little I actually paid for my dog.

Try to work out something like that with a pet store or a back yard breeder!

 

[Smudge]

I think you make a very good point. I have talked to a lot of people who have said that they aren't going to buy from a show breeder because their puppies are too expensive, and besides they don't want a show dog anyhow just a pet. If they would just talk to a show breeder they would find that the price for pet puppies isn't necessarily higher than they would pay for that pet store pup, and a lot cheaper if you figure in vet costs and heartache is something goes wrong with the dog.

I was a little strapped for cash when I bought Ainsley. The breeder came way down in price because she felt that I would give her the sort of home that the breeder wanted for her. She turned down several higher offers because she was mostly concerned with the welfare of the dog. I would be embarrassed to tell you how little I actually paid for my dog.

Try to work out something like that with a pet store or a back yard breeder!

I also get annoyed at the misconception that all show breeders are stuck up and hateful. I was one such a critic before I went looking for a groomer. Jennifer, her mom, Erin (she shows ACD - Australian Cattle Dogs), Janita, and Terry (he shows black and tan coonhounds) are the nicest people you will EVER meet. Smudge and Fluffy are not Jennifer's dogs (meaning I did not buy them from her). She was under no obligation at all to help me in any way. Not only did she groom Smudge a few times for dirt cheap, she did it once for free, too! She also helped me with Fluffy's ears. I still need work with the ears (my first attempt wasn't so great, but at least I tried!), but Fluffy wasn't her puppy to deal with. She could have easily said no. We went to obedience class together. She let me tag along at a show. She let me watch and ask questions while she groomed her dog for a show.

Any money show breeders make from puppies is put directly back into the breed. They are always taking their dogs places and competing in events. Anybody who thinks it is cheap do this should live out in the middle of nowhere like we do. Jennifer drives from Texarkana to Longview, TX (I think she said Longview) to attend private agility lessons. Jennifer also drives about an hour and a half to take her dogs to obedience class once a week.

They ain't lazy, and you can tell it by their dogs and the offspring they produce.