Why is Ellie so weird?

labgirl said:
Hmm, quite a few questions, so here are my thoughts.

1) Attacking Ginger then playing.
That could be Ellie letting Ginger know this is HER house and don't think you are in charge here. Don't forget dogs will act very differently when they meet a dog on neutral ground compared to meeting them on their own territory. Another dog entering their territory permanently (or apparently permanently to Ellie) changes the household or pack dynamic and it takes a while for the resident dog to get used to the newcomer, even if it is a friend.

2) SND
Ellie sounds a little insecure compared to ginger, in fact that probably explains her being territorial as it indicates a lack of confidence. However, dogs mimic. So Ginger is ignoring the SND in a confident manner, so this encourages Ellie not to bark, however she is still wary so keeps with your DH for protection.

3) Different styles of greeting
Well, as my trainer says dogs have moods just like us. So one day Ellie is feeling calm in herself and greets you nicely, another day she is feeling a bit tetchy or uptight and has to let it out with an exuberant greeting. Another thing is perhaps something spooked her while you were out (a loud noise for example) and so she was extra anxious for you to get in and this presented itself as a hyper greeting.

4) Currently ignoring you
Its the doggy sulks because Ginger is in 'her space' and you are being nice to the 'intruder' so she sulks. She'll get passed that one in time. I had a cat that would ignore the whole family for a week when we had been on holiday, because we had dared to leave him. He would even turn his head away from you when you went to stroke him.:rolleyes2:
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Wow. Awesome! Those answers make total sense to me. Thank you!
 
Lahree said:
.Ellie's groomer thinks Ellie is a "scaredy cat." Insecure. I can very much see that, then other days Ellie has alllll the confidence in the world. That's why she is such a puzzle! I am so frustrated because I don't know how to help her! If I need to socailze her even more, fine, but when I take her out for walks (every single day) in our very familiar neighborhood, sometimes she acts like she is terrified to be out and I worry about stressing her out. Other times, she acts confident and happy and I think maybe we should go someplace unfamiliar to broaden her experiences. :confused2:
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I have often read Ember as a "scaredy cat" an overall lack of confidense. But she also wants to be a leader and in charge. It is like she fights with herself regarding which part should be in charge at any given moment. Ember will walk into a room like she owns the place and noises don't brother her, she powers naps in the middle of a show in her kennel without a care in the world. When she works, it is with great confidense. Then she relates to other dogs and people and she loses it sometimes. I have known Ember since the day she was born. She was socialized like all my other dogs, never had a bad experience, was the leader in her litter, she even pushed her mom around.

Rachel says Ember has Asperger's Syndrome if dogs can have such a thing as most of her issues are relating/communicating with others.
 
Makes sense to me. Why shouldn't Shelties have neuroses? Bitsy Boodle is slightly autistic -- manifests it through the ball. Beckon is fear aggressive -- for no discernible reason. Annie Laurie is jealous, especially of her Daddy. Only Layla is, frankly, just about perfect. And even she does the sashay back and forth n front of Boodle, saying, "I have a bra-ain, and you-ooh do-on't" until Boods attacks her. :rolleyes2:
 
Alot has been offered up already. So I won't rehash alot of it.

A couple of things come to mind:

1) I went through behavioural problems with both my boys at about 2 years or so. Indy became super resource aggressive, and Bacca went the opposite way. Now they've turned themselves around again, and Bacca is mostly top dog. At 2+ they are still "finding" themselves. And when you introduce a new dynamic, like Ginger coming to stay, its difficult to predict how they will result.

2) Our pups are very atune to body language and emotion. Could it be that Ellie knew something was up and that you were going away?

3) Shelties can be ultra sensitive...sometimes what seems like dominant behaviour (e.g. growling at SND) is actually a "small dog wanting to be a big dog" behaviour (i.e. insecure). That's my Indy....he barks a good story, but he's the first to go belly up when something bigger and more dominant comes along.

I expect the behaviour with Ginger was Ellie trying to dominant on her turf, but Ginger probably won the battles and soon enough took over pack position, and then everything was fine.

As for SND....same thing. Once Ginger established herself, Ellie took her cues from Ginger. Its kinda like when Caesar brings in Big Daddy. Big, strong, CALM dog. Everyone kinda chills then.

Hope this helps. For what its worth, I don't think Ellie is weird at all. Each dog has its quirks.
 
If you ever have Susanne Clothier giving one of her seminars in your neck of woods I would greatly recommend connecting with her. This lady would be scary with her uncanny abilities to read dogs and their behavior if not for her personality and sense of humor. Talented speaker, she does private consults for many situations and some weird problems. CARAT/ Clothier Animal Response Assessment Tool/ has been used very successfully by Guide Eyes for Blind.
this is from her last book "Bones would rain from the sky"
http://flyingdogpress.com/content/view/12/97/
http://flyingdogpress.com/component/option,com_frontpage/Itemid,1/
 
I appreciate everyone's comments so much! I LOVE this site.

How do I help Ellie? Do dogs become confident through socialization? If so, how can I tell when Ellie is too stressed by that? If sometimes she is nervous and nutso in the very familiar neighborhood, so I still take her other places? She seems to love to go to the city park for all the smells (and any other dogs there I have ever seen ARE on a leash) and she also loves to go the the plant nursery for all the fabulous smells. I have never taken her to Petco or Petsmart because I think that would be overload to her. People would definitely want to pet a pretty little Lassie dog and she is afraid of a lot of people. She is especially afraid of little kids who toddle and run at her.

Please tell me if there is anything else I can do to help Ellie's confidence. Do I teach her some tricks? Some new game or something? I have the puzzle block that she mastered in about 2 seconds flat. We also have the treat dispenser for the afternoons for her to get treats out of. She gets more quality time with mom and dad than any other dog I have ever seen. My DH is disabled and home with her all day. I get home at 4:00 each day and either I am home with her all night or we both are. She gets groomed and love and exercise and play constantly and consistently.

How can I help her?
 
You may not like this suggestion or it may not be doable for you.... but I think it might help Ellie's confidence to have another dog around on a regular basis. A Ginger, or similar. A dog that's more confident than Ellie and can take over the "dominant" position of the house and show her how to act properly in scary situations.

You could just talk to Ginger's owner about this and see if you can borrow Ginger on a regular basis. On Sunday afternoons, or whatever. And then go on a field trip with both pups each week. Dog park, around town, etc. I would be wary of taking Ellie to PetSmart though. I can tell you from experience that EVERYONE will want to pet the Sheltie. And I mean, Ellie will probably be fine. But if there's even the slightest chance she might bite you want her away from that situation.

Good luck! I hope it works out for you. :biggrin2:
 
Lahree, we have the same issue with Beckon, and were surprised to find that Diana's idea really helps! We babysat for two different dog, Maddie the Boxer and Winston the English Springer Spaniel. Both has Colonel Underpants' panties in a wad for a bit -- but it really helped him to get a grip on dealing with others. :yes:
 
Our backyard has two privacy fences on the sides and out the back, facing the greenbelt, there is a rod iron fence. A few minutes ago, there was a large husky/lab mix, off-leash (of course! GRRRR) ahead of his people. He saw the dogs in the backyard and was at first doing an total stare-down: feet braced, tail up and head lowered, staring at our dogs. A definite challenge. Ellie was barking her head off, a high pitched terrified bark and ran to the porch and kept barking and kept backing up until she had backed herself into the corner. She looked through the windowed door at me, so scared, so when I opened the door, she bolted in. She then ran to the window and barked and barked and barked.

Ginger in the meantime, was in the yard, near the fence, staring back at the huge dog. Ginger didn't bark and did not move from her spot until the big dog moved. It starting running up and down the fence line, so, so did Ginger. The people FINALLY came along and called their dog and had a very hard time getting it to move away from our fence. It was still challenging Ginger. Finally the dog trotted away and THEN Ginger barked and chased after it--like saying, "And STAY out too!" LOL. However, she turned around and noticed Ellie was not out in the yard with her, Ginger ran to the house as fast as she could and wanted inside. Then she and Ellie both stood at the window barking furiously until I closed the shades and they couldn't see outside any longer.

So, is Ginger a confident dog? I don't know about these things because I have never had any problems with the other two Shelties I owned. Neither one had any kind of confidence problem at all. I have never had to deal with it before.
 
Lahree said:
Our backyard has two privacy fences on the sides and out the back, facing the greenbelt, there is a rod iron fence. A few minutes ago, there was a large husky/lab mix, off-leash (of course! GRRRR) ahead of his people. He saw the dogs in the backyard and was at first doing an total stare-down: feet braced, tail up and head lowered, staring at our dogs. A definite challenge. Ellie was barking her head off, a high pitched terrified bark and ran to the porch and kept barking and kept backing up until she had backed herself into the corner. She looked through the windowed door at me, so scared, so when I opened the door, she bolted in. She then ran to the window and barked and barked and barked.

Ginger in the meantime, was in the yard, near the fence, staring back at the huge dog. Ginger didn't bark and did not move from her spot until the big dog moved. It starting running up and down the fence line, so, so did Ginger. The people FINALLY came along and called their dog and had a very hard time getting it to move away from our fence. It was still challenging Ginger. Finally the dog trotted away and THEN Ginger barked and chased after it--like saying, "And STAY out too!" LOL. However, she turned around and noticed Ellie was not out in the yard with her, Ginger ran to the house as fast as she could and wanted inside. Then she and Ellie both stood at the window barking furiously until I closed the shades and they couldn't see outside any longer.

So, is Ginger a confident dog? I don't know about these things because I have never had any problems with the other two Shelties I owned. Neither one had any kind of confidence problem at all. I have never had to deal with it before.
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Ginger sounds awesome!
lol
She just wanted to chase that dog, I doubt she was scared when she wanted in, and then just did an ole "omg omg omg can you believe this!!" bark fest, setting each other off and running in circles.

Toffee did much better with Misty around, too. Way more confident and relaxed, even in the car for car sickness having the ole GSD Dame around relaxed him so much!
I like Diana's idea for you guys a lot.
 
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