Why is Ellie so weird?

[Caro]

.... let dog chase rabbit for an hour then he won't even look at the passing car... keep dog in crate for the day- dog will lunge at your moving hand ...

Not quite. Tully has such a high prey drive that letting her chase rabbits increases her desire to bark at passing cars - it stimulates her prey drive too much. Only solution I have is to transfer her prey drive onto something else like a ball.

 

[labgirl]

Hmm, quite a few questions, so here are my thoughts.

1) Attacking Ginger then playing.
That could be Ellie letting Ginger know this is HER house and don't think you are in charge here. Don't forget dogs will act very differently when they meet a dog on neutral ground compared to meeting them on their own territory. Another dog entering their territory permanently (or apparently permanently to Ellie) changes the household or pack dynamic and it takes a while for the resident dog to get used to the newcomer, even if it is a friend.

2) SND
Ellie sounds a little insecure compared to ginger, in fact that probably explains her being territorial as it indicates a lack of confidence. However, dogs mimic. So Ginger is ignoring the SND in a confident manner, so this encourages Ellie not to bark, however she is still wary so keeps with your DH for protection.

3) Different styles of greeting
Well, as my trainer says dogs have moods just like us. So one day Ellie is feeling calm in herself and greets you nicely, another day she is feeling a bit tetchy or uptight and has to let it out with an exuberant greeting. Another thing is perhaps something spooked her while you were out (a loud noise for example) and so she was extra anxious for you to get in and this presented itself as a hyper greeting.

4) Currently ignoring you
Its the doggy sulks because Ginger is in 'her space' and you are being nice to the 'intruder' so she sulks. She'll get passed that one in time. I had a cat that would ignore the whole family for a week when we had been on holiday, because we had dared to leave him. He would even turn his head away from you when you went to stroke him.

 

[Lahree]

Oh man. In answer to your question: Ellie is a textbook example of why the Sheltie is not a dog for beginners. (No matter what any dog books or textbooks say.)

Ellie, to me, sounds more like a 14-year-old teenage princess.

And the best part is that it's not that they're spoiled. At least I don't think so. I think the problem is that those Shelties are so dang smart!

I think Ellie needs a psychologist to talk through her doggie feelings...

Good luck with her!

Yes, Ellie is my third Sheltie spanning over 30 years and she is SO completely different than the other two I had she might as well be a different breed!

Yes, teenage princess is about right, lol.

You are right, she is not spoiled, but she is TOO smart!

I work for a behavioral health hospital--I'll try to see if anyone specializes in "doggie talk." lol!

 

[Lahree]

Is it a play attack, given they were happily playing again not long after? Some dogs have a really growly style of playing - Deska used to give me heart attacks when he would pin a dog down and do that growly thing until I worked out that's just how he wrestles, a little rough. I know he scares the cat when he tries to wrestle with her but other dogs understand he is just playing even if it looks a little rough to us humans.

I dont think the behaviours are unusual - she sounds a lot like my little Tully, who is a very exciteable, high prey drive dog. Sometimes she is the dream dog and other times she barks at cars, other dogs and, well anything that moves. I have just learnt to live with it - on the whole she is so much better than she used to be. Of course age is also helping her mellow out. I'm afraid I can't help you with finding a way to get rid of the behaviours completely.

Dog's are easily upset by changes in routine, it will be interesting to see if she quickly goes back to her old self when Ginger leaves.

No, it wasn't a play attack. It was real intent. I know what you are saying about style of play though. Ellie ALWAYS shows her teeth while playing. She looks like she may kill her playmate at any moment. THey are both very loud with their growls, but I can easily tell the difference between play and non-play. I was not there when Ginger came into the house, but it could be that Ellie didn't immediately recognize Ginger?? I don't know, Ginger was also on a leash and I know that inhibits doggie body language. Maybe the two? It was "Ellie's house" and she was defending it? She has NEVER done that before all the times that Ginger came over, but Ginger has never been on a leash before. I don't know, I give myself a headache trying to figure her out.

 

[Lahree]

Oh gosh, loaded question! lol

Dynamics change, I can tell you with certainty that Toffee was way less scared, anxious or frustrated with Misty (ex roomies dog) around, so he was able to relax much faster than ever before. He took his queues from her, and she was such a sweet, calm dog, too

As you know personally, I have always speculated that Ellie although special, underneath her tough cookie facade is more scared and frustrated. When she is made to supress things, and only offer 'good' behaviour other issues are showing up it in other ways.

However, you know her just so much better! I know we always kinda disagreed about some of your trainer's ideas, lol, whom you and Ellie adore. So it may be time to ask her about this and no need to worry about what I may be thinking, lol.

Ellie sure is a wild but insecure and scared child, but I totally adore her and your dedication to her!! You guys are doing so many wonderful things, don't let that discourage ya... she seems to love Ginger and it sounds like a great friendship! ... as long as you guys control the resources like couch, toys, you guys, food, etc... as she seems to be resource guarding when she is giving Ginger a beating, lol

Yes, both Ellie and I really like Ellie's trainer, but I don't always agree with or implement all of her suggestions on training. She believes in flooding. I don't. There have been some other suggestions I can't think of right now, but I take them into consideration and use what I thinks works best for Ellie. Not one person knows all about dog training. They use what methods works best for them. She has over 30 years experience with Shelties--owns and breeds and shows them in obedience. She knows Shelties. She readily admits she had almost met her match with Ellie. She said in all the hundreds of dogs she had trained, Ellie was in the top five in smarts. So, when a person with that much experience has problems with MY dog, LOL, it gives me an indication of how complicated Ellie really is.

Ellie's groomer thinks Ellie is a "scaredy cat." Insecure. I can very much see that, then other days Ellie has alllll the confidence in the world. That's why she is such a puzzle! I am so frustrated because I don't know how to help her! If I need to socailze her even more, fine, but when I take her out for walks (every single day) in our very familiar neighborhood, sometimes she acts like she is terrified to be out and I worry about stressing her out. Other times, she acts confident and happy and I think maybe we should go someplace unfamiliar to broaden her experiences.

 

[Lahree]

All I can say is I understand and I don't know. Of course you know Ellie and Ember were seperated at birth and I ask myself the same question "Why is she so weird?" Ember is almost 6yr(in May) and I have just excepted she is weird.

Sometimes I swear Ember was dropped on her head when she was born. None of my other dogs act like her. Good luck with Ellie.

I always look forward to your replies because Ellie and Ember were seperated at birth! LOL. And like, you, I have just expected Ellie to be weird.

Like I said in an earlier reply, Ellie is SO different than any other Sheltie I have owned or even been around. She is, well, weird.

 

[Lahree]

I think you should call Victoria Stillwell and get on her show, or send your question in to the magazine "The Bark." Just an idea...

LOL. I do like her very much. It'd be my luck that she'd say that Ellie is tooooooo weird, lol!

 

[Lahree]

I have often thought that same thing about Pal. Sometimes he seems so head strong, like come for instance, I know he knows it, but he seems to want to do his own thing, where Maverick will always do what you ask. So I have Maverick do it and get treated then Pal will do it. As Pal has passed a year old he seems to be listening better. I read something, maybe on this site, about the teenage years?

Donna

Ellie is 2 years and 4 months. She was getting so much better when she got to be about 2. Like a LOT better, now she is acting inconsitently again. Scared/confident/trained/untrained. I don't know how much has to do with age or personality or what.

 

[Lahree]

I think I got the fence thing.

The evil neighbor dog cannot come through the fence and she has figured it out. So she can go over and torment the dog with no fear. The dog only barks when she is over there. So a bit of mutual torment that borders on play (not friends though) All of sudden the big scary dog was barking for no apparent reason and that was scary because what if he COULD come over and get her So she was hiding behind her protector.

Interesting! Hmmmm. Well, the SND was barking at Ginger and Ginger was not barking back, just looking at the fence. DH thinks that Ellie was not going over to the fence because Ellie figured she didn't need to because Ginger was "taking care of it." If so, that doesn't explain why Ellie was acting scared and felt she needed to be protected. Maybe Ellie was afraid for Ginger? I have NO idea. Your explanation certainly sounds plausible.

 

[Lahree]

hmm, when you say Ellie attacked her, what exactly Ellie did and what Ginger did? Was Ginger afraid?
If you describe that Ellie lunged and jumped on top of Ginger, Ginger turned on her back and Ellie put her mouth around Ginger neck, most likely Ellie was behaving like a brat, showing Ginger that she is tough s!@#t in the house... sounds like Ginger accepted it with good grace and they continued...
Leo displays somewhat similar super confident overbearing attitude at his 7 month old... I take you down so you know I am tough s!@#t here... we are taking him to daycare where he is placed with dogs who will give him appropriate corrections... there is nothing us humans can do about it, it is a dog world and pups need to learn proper corrections from elders since early on...
regarding different behaviors- those are trained behaviors, but Ellie offers them when she feels like it when her energy is mellow, she changes the game when she is more anxious, has more stimulation... under some conditions distractions there were 3/10 become 10/10.... let dog chase rabbit for an hour then he won't even look at the passing car... keep dog in crate for the day- dog will lunge at your moving hand ...

I didn't see the first two attacks. I heard the first one. DH says that Ellie jumped on top of Ginger and bit her neck. Ginger cried horribly, but I think more that her feelings were hurt and it scared her. I think you are 100% right, Ellie was telling her "my house, my people, my EVERYTHING!" I only saw the third bite where I opened the fridge. Ellie was slightly behind Ginger so she jumped on her back and bit her neck. The really sad, sad thing that followed is that Ginger turned around and cried this really tormented cry and looked at Ellie in the face and Ginger kept crying like, "Why did you DO that? Why? Why?" Ellie actually pulled her head back and then started backing up away frm Ginger and her expression was one I had never seen before. I think she actually, finally, understood that she hurt Ginger (or at least Ginger's feelings). There have been no incidents since.