You are too big to show, sugar!

[Smudge]

I know some breeders will charge you pet price or lower price until pup grows up and is show quality. From what I observed, breeders that have been doing it for few years and have developed their line are pretty much right on target what pup is going to look like when grown up. I am sure some surprises do happen...am sure that height is major reason why puppies end up at pet/ performance houses...
I do have some feelings about it as it seems there is some atittude- oh, yeah, well, not good for show dog well, will be good for performance... I think performance dogs are NOT show rejects and should be merited on their own!

Jennifer once told me that height was the biggest disqualification for shelties in the ring.

About shelties and performance. I don't know. Jennifer, however, does have performance only dogs, and she does do performance events for her conformation dogs. She also from time to time helps with collie rescue.

My reasoning would be that the performance events conflict with the conformation events. The Texarkana Kennel Club doesn't even offer agility at their local competition. It's only comformation, rally, and obedience. Schedule conflict is something Jennifer is always having a problem with.

Ellie, one of Jennifer's show girls, was entered into rally yesterday, and did pretty good for her first try. So I hear. I was at work.

 

[Lovely]

I do admire people that have more than one dog and actively compete all of their pets in competitions. I have made the choice to only compete Smudge, but I still continue to train Fluff anyway.

I think that is an amazing feat as well! I've decided that when Duncan is fully Flyball trained (or as good as he will get or competing at least...), I will start with one of the either pups. Pierre in agility or Abbie in Flyball. Abbie is very noise sensitive, though, so I think Pierre is closer to being Agility ready. Training a Papillon is sooo very hit-or-miss with their willingness. It will be quite a challenge! The goal is to have each dog competing in something. With dogs at 1, 2, and 3 years old, I don't think that is unreasonable. But we will measure each dog and try not to force them into something they don't want to do. Hence, working on Abbie's sound issues and Pierre's listening skills while I learn how to train for agility and flyball. Poor Duncan is the guinea pig!

 

[Smudge]

But we will measure each dog and try not to force them into something they don't want to do.

See, and this is my thing. There is a difference in a dog just being stubborn and actually not liking something. Smudge HATES to jump. People just assume that because I have a sheltie I want to do agility. I'm not hating on the agility people, but it is not for Smudge. I keep debating back and forth about building/buying a regulation obedience jump just to see how badly that goes. There are jumps in obedience, but speed and jumping are not the main focus in obedience.

Having said that, I think Fluffy might like agility, but I don't think that is going to happen. I have a play agility tunnel here at the house (been a while since we used it though!). Then, of course, if I do end up buying an obedience jump she can play with it also.

 

[HopeShelties]

That's something that always really gets me... Some breeders seem to assume anything that isn't going to make it as a conformation dog must be an ideal performance prospect. While sure, most can do it at some level, not all of them are going to be successful. Heck, not all of them will even like it (and I have met some with temperaments that make them completely unsuitable for any performance venues, and their conformation breeder was completely blind to it, claiming they were as good as any other performance dog- and yes, I had worked these dogs so KNOW for fact they weren't suitable). What I don't think some conformation breeders who have never done any performance get is that most people who are serious and want to be competitive in performance want a dog with what it takes to be truly successful, just like they do in conformation. It takes a special dog to make a competitive excellent b agility dog who won't break down over the long haul. It takes a dog with drive and good structure to make it in herding. And, it takes a smart, willing to please partner to be successful in rally and/or obedience.

 

[Calliesmom]

My reasoning would be that the performance events conflict with the conformation events. The Texarkana Kennel Club doesn't even offer agility at their local competition. It's only comformation, rally, and obedience. Schedule conflict is something Jennifer is always having a problem with.

Ellie, one of Jennifer's show girls, was entered into rally yesterday, and did pretty good for her first try. So I hear. I was at work.

haven't been to tons of trials but it seems (unless it's the Nationals) that conformation shows only pair with obedience/rally. Almost all agility trials seem to be stand-alone or possibly paired with obedience/rally. it's a lot of work to put on a trial and the more that is going on at one event, the more people are needed to work at each part

 

[Smudge]

What I don't think some conformation breeders who have never done any performance get is that most people who are serious and want to be competitive in performance want a dog with what it takes to be truly successful, just like they do in conformation. It takes a special dog to make a competitive excellent b agility dog who won't break down over the long haul. It takes a dog with drive and good structure to make it in herding. And, it takes a smart, willing to please partner to be successful in rally and/or obedience.

I am very glad you said this so much.

If you've never done performance events how would you even know? I mean seriously. That's not saying that people who only do conformation are bad people, and that does not mean that people who do only performance are bad people. But how can you say this dog would be good for agility or this dog would do wonderful in obedience if you've never personally done them yourself? How can you know what it takes and what qualities to look for?

My puppymill dog can do obedience (well..I keep trying to myself he can anyway! ). It's a whole other ball game though when a dog is sold from a breeder under the assumption that a dog would be good at an event.

 

[Smudge]

haven't been to tons of trials but it seems (unless it's the Nationals) that conformation shows only pair with obedience/rally. Almost all agility trials seem to be stand-alone or possibly paired with obedience/rally. it's a lot of work to put on a trial and the more that is going on at one event, the more people are needed to work at each part

True, but not everybody likes agility (a sheltie owner who doesn't like agility - the horror! ). I think you missed the part about the Texarkana show not even having agility. I don't know why they don't, really.

Not all shows have agility, and then you have to make the decision to either do conformation or obedience/rally. You forget we live in hick town, and in the middle of nowhere. Jennifer did that this weekend - she did rally instead of conformation (but Jennifer does like agility, also!).

 

[Justicemom]

A local sheltie breeder who does conformation had a large litter of pups and Rachel and I went to look at them. 3 non show quality pups. One too big, one too small, and one in size but a small snippy muzzle. All had good structure. The big one was drop dead gorgeous had he not been huge, he was pick.

She told us she thought they would all be good performance dogs so could we pass on that they needed homes. The small one had great toy and food drive and fire, he recovered well to noises. But was alittle touch/surface sensitive. The big one was a bit more laid back. But fearless, looked you right in the eye, nothing bothered him, he crawled over everything and he had good not great toy drive, good food drive and loved people. The insized one had really good structure but the temperament was not suited. Would not look you in the eye, stiff when held, seemed nervous about handling, hung back from the rest of the litter and was the last to play.

We told her the big one and the little would be fine. The insize one no. She didn't want to believe us and tried to say it was because it didn't know us. But the fact was none of the other puppies acted like that not lack of handling/socialization. It was the pups personality. Someone could try to do performance events with the pup but it would be very difficult not saying it couldn't be done. Odds were not with this pup that it would ever be a top competitor. It may not handle the stress of shows/competing at all. Best suited for a experience pet home who will continue socialization.

I did have a friend who does obedience and agility come look at the little and the big pup. She took the big guy and is so happy with him. He walked over to her when she walked in the yard and never left her side.

 

[Lightplum]

A local sheltie breeder who does conformation had a large litter of pups and Rachel and I went to look at them. 3 non show quality pups. One too big, one too small, and one in size but a small snippy muzzle. All had good structure. The big one was drop dead gorgeous had he not been huge, he was pick.

She told us she thought they would all be good performance dogs so could we pass on that they needed homes. The small one had great toy and food drive and fire, he recovered well to noises. But was alittle touch/surface sensitive. The big one was a bit more laid back. But fearless, looked you right in the eye, nothing bothered him, he crawled over everything and he had good not great toy drive, good food drive and loved people. The insized one had really good structure but the temperament was not suited. Would not look you in the eye, stiff when held, seemed nervous about handling, hung back from the rest of the litter and was the last to play.

We told her the big one and the little would be fine. The insize one no. She didn't want to believe us and tried to say it was because it didn't know us. But the fact was none of the other puppies acted like that not lack of handling/socialization. It was the pups personality. Someone could try to do performance events with the pup but it would be very difficult not saying it couldn't be done. Odds were not with this pup that it would ever be a top competitor. It may not handle the stress of shows/competing at all. Best suited for a experience pet home who will continue socialization.

I did have a friend who does obedience and agility come look at the little and the big pup. She took the big guy and is so happy with him. He walked over to her when she walked in the yard and never left her side.

exactly!! Its all in the attitude, some will make it some just dont have it, and that falls up to the breeder whos been with them since day 1 to make that judgement for the best situation for the dog! And it some cases it is just the personality of the dog, I have same litter,bigger in the litter was super outgoing middle in size was ok but more reserved, and little one has the little dog personality.

 

[labgirl]

I do admire people that have more than one dog and actively compete all of their pets in competitions. I have made the choice to only compete Smudge, but I still continue to train Fluff anyway.

Lol, well if things go to plan I may have three dogs running at agility by the end of 2012. I haven't figured out how that will work yet, especially with the display team, maybe I'll just have to keep swapping dogs.

Here is Sophie and Cadbury...

Oh, and look its Sophie again this time with "..."

And once again, here is Sophie and she is running "..."

But then you know I am crazy