Abbie's "pedigree"

[ClantyreSheltie]

All Sheltie is my vote.

A merle to sable breeding will only produce a CHW if both dogs are white factored. The white factoring is completely independent from the base color and the merling. My blue is from a sable/blue breeding, none of the puppies were white, and none of them (as far as we know) are white factored. The sire is not white factored, and we don't think the dam is either.

I would actually call your dog a piebald. A true color headed white is exactly that, a white dog with a colored head, maybe a small body spot. What you have is a dog who is more than 50% white, but not a CHW. We use the term CHW loosely to describe any dog with more than the allowed amount of white. We don't know a whole lot about Piebald, and how it interacts with the true white-factoring yet. Some dogs may carry both white factoring and piebald, in addition to the Irish pattern.

 

[MissSuzie]

All Sheltie is my vote.

A merle to sable breeding will only produce a CHW if both dogs are white factored. The white factoring is completely independent from the base color and the merling. My blue is from a sable/blue breeding, none of the puppies were white, and none of them (as far as we know) are white factored. The sire is not white factored, and we don't think the dam is either.

I would actually call your dog a piebald. A true color headed white is exactly that, a white dog with a colored head, maybe a small body spot. What you have is a dog who is more than 50% white, but not a CHW. We use the term CHW loosely to describe any dog with more than the allowed amount of white. We don't know a whole lot about Piebald, and how it interacts with the true white-factoring yet. Some dogs may carry both white factoring and piebald, in addition to the Irish pattern.

I've never heard the term piebald. What does it mean? Would Cooper be piebald too. Or is a double merle something different.

 

[BarbV]

Looks all Sheltie to me...

Perhaps larger size. I don't see an BC at all. If anything I see collie, but that could just be large size Sheltie, I'm seeing.

 

[take4roll10]

Looks all sheltie to me too.

Wow Duncan is 9.3 pounds! small guy.

 

[Lovely]

All Sheltie is my vote.

A merle to sable breeding will only produce a CHW if both dogs are white factored. The white factoring is completely independent from the base color and the merling. My blue is from a sable/blue breeding, none of the puppies were white, and none of them (as far as we know) are white factored. The sire is not white factored, and we don't think the dam is either.

I would actually call your dog a piebald. A true color headed white is exactly that, a white dog with a colored head, maybe a small body spot. What you have is a dog who is more than 50% white, but not a CHW. We use the term CHW loosely to describe any dog with more than the allowed amount of white. We don't know a whole lot about Piebald, and how it interacts with the true white-factoring yet. Some dogs may carry both white factoring and piebald, in addition to the Irish pattern.

I had thought of the white factored in my last post: "She could have been bred from two white factored Shelties, one sable and one merle of some sort."

As for the piebald, you may be correct. I did a little research and there is still so much unknown! They need to get on that. Abbie is definitely more than 50% white, so according to some of what I've read, color-headed white is an acceptable term.

http://www.norcalshelties.org/SheltieColors/whitemarkings.html

If you scroll to the Color-Headed White section, their sable-color white has just as much coloring as Abbie does. I tend to focus on her side with more color for pictures because the color she does have is SO gorgeous. But, her other side is much more sparse.
http://i800.photobucket.com/albums/yy282/the_gallows/Three musketeers/Rescue-17.jpg
http://i800.photobucket.com/albums/yy282/the_gallows/Three musketeers/Rescue-14.jpg
http://i800.photobucket.com/albums/yy282/the_gallows/Three musketeers/Rescue-15.jpg

This is a great website for genetics stuff:
http://bowlingsite.mcf.com/genetics/colorgen.html

Talking about piebald: "In general, it seems a piebald has more than 50% white, white often crosses the back, and the pattern gives the impression of fairly large colored spots on a white ground."

Talking about CHW: "Extreme white piebalds range from the color-headed whites (Collies, Shelties) which may also have a few colored spots on the body, especially near the tail, through dogs with color confined to the area around the ear or eye (Sealyham, White Bull Terrier, Great Pynenees) to some pure whites (Dalmation ideal)."

Interesting site, really.

I've never heard the term piebald. What does it mean? Would Cooper be piebald too. Or is a double merle something different.

I got these quotes from that site:

"An mm dog is normal color (no merling). A Mm dog is merled. But an MM dog has much more white than is normal for the breed (almost all white in Shelties) and may have hearing loss, vision problems including small or missing eyes, and possible infertility (Little)."
"In Shelties, Collies, Border Collies, and Australian Shepherds, all of which normally have fairly extensive white markings, the MM white has a strong probability of being deaf or blind."

Wow Duncan is 9.3 pounds! small guy.

He really is. I thought he was a little stocky for his height and like the way he moves at this lower weight. Man, it can sneak up on you! Duncan is just about 12.5" at the shoulder. I think right under 10 lbs will be perfect. He is muscled well, too.

 

[Ainsley's mom]

Those eyes. That expression. She had to be a sheltie! But either way, she is a really pretty dog. I like her unusual coloring.

 

[Justicemom]

She looks sheltie to me.

 

[ClantyreSheltie]

This is a great website for genetics stuff:
http://bowlingsite.mcf.com/genetics/colorgen.html

Awesome site.

I have the whole site saved off on disk. It's got too much good information, and I am afraid it will go away.

 

[take4roll10]

He really is. I thought he was a little stocky for his height and like the way he moves at this lower weight. Man, it can sneak up on you! Duncan is just about 12.5" at the shoulder. I think right under 10 lbs will be perfect. He is muscled well, too.

It's funny how sheltie's weights are so different. Bailey is only 1/2 inch taller than Duncan and she weighs 15 1/2 pounds. and she is not over weight.

 

[Lovely]

I am definitely leaning more and more toward full Sheltie. She even makes the exact same grunts as Duncan when she's playing. Sometimes, they'll have such similar expressions, I just die laughing.

Awesome site.

I have the whole site saved off on disk. It's got too much good information, and I am afraid it will go away.

It really is crammed with all kinds of amazingness. Lots of pages on just about every facet of genetics in dogs.

It's funny how sheltie's weights are so different. Bailey is only 1/2 inch taller than Duncan and she weighs 15 1/2 pounds. and she is not over weight.

Duncan is built very ... petite. I think 11.5 lbs would be the max of the healthy weights for him. Also, though, his coat is very thin in many places (save for the pants and the beginnings of a mane). He's only 10 months old, so he could have some filling out to do. Pierre gained a half pound after he was really done growing, which put him at just over 8 lbs as a healthy weight.

Bailey is not overweight from her pictures. She is beautiful! You know how it is with guys, they can drop the weight soooo easily.