Abbie's "pedigree"

Lightplum said:
If done correctly line breeding, with proper testing done you should have no issues, now with that said if you are tightly line breeding and there are thryoid problems etc you are increasing you odds of it popping up by 2-4 times that is why testing is important. The problem with BYB dogs are that they dont do testing on their stock, they are too lazy aka cheap to have it done it cuts down on their profits if you have to shell out for the testing. BYB dont know the back ground on their dogs. THey dont know what is in their pedigree generations back. BYB are far more dangerous than "Hobby/show" breeders. We atleast if some trait does pop up can pin point to where it came from and not re-peat the same mistakes. But I digress back to the line breeding we do it to keep certain lines, you dont want to just pick random jo-smoe dog to mate to because if you dont know how it will outcross with your dog you can end up producing some funny looking shelties....and thats not what breeding is about producing some random puppies, breeding is to improve the standard.
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nope, low thyroid is the only tip of the iceberg... improving phenotype by line breeding does NOTHING good for genotype, at the best it still keeps those recessive genes from doubling up... while low thyroid, hip displasia and VW are being checked what about immune problems that keep cropping up like various allergies, various growth even benigh ones, cancerous tumors, diabetes and all those wonderful heart murmurs, pulmonary effusions, epilepsy, hernia and what about depression?????
Dr Pitcairn in his book "Natural health for dogs and cats" states that he noticed overall deterioration in pets health since he graduated from vet school in 1965. He also states we now seeing very young animals with same kind of diseases that we used to see in very old animals. It seems that accumulation of poor health is being passed on with each step. Sure not everything is because of inbreeding. Lots of it has to do with environmental
changes, commercial food and general free use with antibiotics, steroids and such.... In our obedience class 3 dogs out of 16 had to drop out for health reasons and all of them were under 1 year old! 2 of the dogs had very serious health problems and one will return to next class...
 
My two girls are half sisters but you'd never know it. Sadie at not quite 3 years old is 17.5" tall and weighs 24 lbs. Ginny, who is not quite a year old, is 13.5" tall and weighs 12.5 lbs. Both came from a reputable breeder and are CKC registered.

I think Abbie is a pure sheltie. Give her some time, her coat may yet still come in. Females don't get always get the huge fluffy coat that males do. Sadie has a gorgeous coat but its no where near as full as others I've seen.

http://www.sheltieforums.com/album.php?albumid=192&pictureid=2102

Ginny is so fluffy that she almost looks like a Pomeranian. The big guy next to her is her brother and littermate, believe it or not.

http://www.sheltieforums.com/album.php?albumid=192&pictureid=2623
 
I would say she is a purebred sheltie, and what I would consider her is a harlequin sable merle, not a color headed white. I have had harlequin blues like that. In blues, they are generally born with the grayish area white, and the black splotches intact. In a sable merle harlequin, the lighter sable would appear white, and the darker sable splotches would appear normal/merled. Of the ones I have had, they typically have more than your average amount of white... big white blazes, full white collars extending far back onto the dog, lots of white on the legs. From the pictures, it looks like there is some slight pigment to the whitish areas, as opposed to pure white, which points toward harlequin, and not chw.
Harlequins typically appear when a domino pattern merle is bred. Domino pattern can only produce itself, cryptics, and harlequins. I would say your pups parents were either a harlequin or domino pattern dog and a sable dog.
 
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I am going to respectfully request that the inbreeding conversation find a different venue. I certainly do not want a discussion where someone "wins" happening in this otherwise benign post.

OntarioSheltie said:
...Sadie at not quite 3 years old is 17.5" tall and weighs 24 lbs. Ginny, who is not quite a year old, is 13.5" tall and weighs 12.5 lbs.
...

I think Abbie is a pure sheltie. Give her some time, her coat may yet still come in. Females don't get always get the huge fluffy coat that males do. Sadie has a gorgeous coat but its no where near as full as others I've seen.
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Duncan's full brother is very much larger than him, so I do understnad the size difference! 17.5" is a tall boy. :winkgrin:

Abbie was also given low quality food for who knows how long as well as being used for breeding. If she had a huge coat, I would be afraid for us in the future!!!

HopeShelties said:
I would say she is a purebred sheltie, and what I would consider her is a harlequin sable merle, not a color headed white. I have had harlequin blues like that. In blues, they are generally born with the grayish area white, and the black splotches intact. In a sable merle harlequin, the lighter sable would appear white, and the darker sable splotches would appear normal/merled. Of the ones I have had, they typically have more than your average amount of white... big white blazes, full white collars extending far back onto the dog, lots of white on the legs. From the pictures, it looks like there is some slight pigment to the whitish areas, as opposed to pure white, which points toward harlequin, and not chw.
Harlequins typically appear when a domino pattern merle is bred. Domino pattern can only produce itself, cryptics, and harlequins. I would say your pups parents were either a harlequin or domino pattern dog and a sable dog.
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I have never heard of the harlequin or domino attributed to Shelties. I like that a lot. Her white IS shaded a yellowy color in places. I am still not sure if that is due to diet and her skin yeast infection or just natural.

I will definitely have to revisit this in maybe six months to a year and see how she has changed. Her coat will probably come in some.
 
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Harlequin isn't really a correct color for shelties, though it does show up from time to time.
I'd suggest reading reading Cherden shelties website on the types of blues in shelties. I have however wound up with one, and a friend (from completely different lines) has run into one within the last year as well.
harlequin:
excuse the low quality... these were taken with a digital video camera
http://hopeful4ky.webs.com/PIC_0349.JPG
http://hopeful4ky.webs.com/PIC_0423.jpg
and a friends harlequin:
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=794165&id=1543339318
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=45160&id=1543339318#!/photo.php?pid=794164&id=1543339318
The sire of the first pup is a domino pattern blue, and the dam of the second is a domino pattern blue.
There are quite a lot of domino pattern dogs out there. It's popular with how flashy they look.
 
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Looks like she is all sheltie to me. I get the sheltie stare.

I read a long time ago that it can take a female up to five years to have a full coat. With Lady that didn't happen and I think it was all in the genes with her. She had a full coat by the time she was three. At a year and a half she had a very thick coat.
 
I would venture to guess that Abby's coat issues may stem from improper care and feeding during the first year(s) of her life. That's what I feel about Cooper too. I'm hoping that after a year or so of good food and constant care that his coat will be long and beautiful!
 
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