Debarked Dogs

[Lightplum]

It is an interesting phenomenon, and you're quite right - I've seen the Lab boards where debarking is a flameworthy topic.

My theory is that we've simply reached a critical mass of cultural acceptance: enough breeders have their dogs debarked (and are 100% OK with it) that they tell their puppy-buyers that it's OK, and the puppy-buyers go forth and spread the good news, so to speak. A huge part of that is the process by which debarking becomes 100% acceptable among breeders. Back in the very early 90's, we had a very barky young bitch. She was the first one we had debarked, and it was only after a great deal of consideration.

Now, the reality was that the little dog was quite obviously none the worse for wear after debarking. As an owner, my mother could see that she barked just as much after the surgery as she had before, and seemed to suffer no physical or mental harm as a result.

And that, I think, is the critical tipping point. If you've only ever met one or two debarked dogs, it's very easy to construct a narrative in which the meanie abusive owner has had the poor animal's voice-box removed (or, more fancifully, has slammed a steel pipe down the dog's throat). However, if you meet enough happy, healthy debarked dogs... and enough caring, perfectly-humane owners of debarked dogs... debarking becomes more normalized and more acceptable.

I think that is absolutely what it is, once someone sees that the dog is the same completely happy functioning dog that is was before people go ohhhhh ok I get it! Your not maiming your dog! Only one of mine is de-barked like I said Molly..it was not a snap decision, she was almost 3 when I had her done. It got to the point where I could literally not let her out for more than 2 min to go pee because shed find something to bark at, the birds, a car driving by, someone walking, a dog barking 1/2mile away, a flea jumping..etc you get the idea...

When I went to get my zoning changed my neighbors had no idea I had more than 1 dog..half of them said to me ohhh you have dogs I think they must be deaf...but anyways if I can keep them all on that thought of I have no dogs I am not disturbing my neighbors or encroaching upon them with my hobby of the dogs! Its a win win!

 

[Danny's mommy]

I am not for indiscriminately debarking. When all else fails, the neighbors have filed complaints, training is not working and I do not endorse shock collars etc., it is driving you crazy, you are ready to contact the dog pound in frustration, than I would suggest debarking. I would never endorse getting a dog debarked "just in case" it winds up a barker. Each case has to be treated individually.

 

[ClantyreSheltie]

I bet if you ask, many of us with multiple debarks will tell you how long we held out on the first one. For us it was two and a half years, and like I said, he is 15 and still never shuts up. Everyone initially has a mental hurdle to get over, then as Megan said, it gets normalized.

Minpins are another popular breed seen at the debark vet.

 

[BarbV]

Still....
Even though I've largely gone into lurk mode on this forum, and appreciate that once again I shall take some heat for this one, I can't let this go without a dissent of some sort. It does continue to surprise me that the Sheltie board not only advocates for debarking but shows a real 'message board' animosity toward any who oppose it.

I'm willing to bet that if I go on the Lab Chat board, or the Pug Board, or any other 'yappy' breed board, even the (heaven forbid) Beagle Board, and I say 'I'm about to get my new puppy debarked, just in case, because I have all my dogs routinely debarked', then I'm gonna get the riot act read to me, big time.
(Don't believe me? I'm happy to give it a go on Lab Chat with a 'Ya know, over on the Sheltie Board they say... wanna bet?)
This attitude of 'I get all my dogs debarked, and if you have a problem with that then I have a problem with you' does seem to be a Sheltie owner idiosyncracy, and i confess I don't quite understand it. - Dr. Mac

Love it when someone steps in as "devil's advocate".

Debarking is not my first choice. And in Indy's case appears to not have worked at all.

Sidebar: Indy was debarked when I brought him home at almost 10 months, but his bark was nowhere as shrill as it now. Is it possible that the debarking wears off? or you have to wait for a certain maturity level to have it take?

I do think there is a difference between a Sheltie bark and certain other breeds, and maybe that's why there is less controversy over debarking Shelties vs. other breeds.

The majority of Shelties, when they bark, its like fingernails on a chalkboard. It just seems to hit your nerve center. Maybe that's breeding....remember Timmy falling into the well? You want your dog to alert, danger, alert! That's what herding dogs do. So a Sheltie bark is MEANT to be paid attention to.

When Indy barks, it's definitely an attention getter.
I'm guessing that labs and hound breeds bark in a lower tone that does not aggravate in the same way as a Sheltie bark.

Long way of saying, that the reasons for debarking a lab vs. debarking a Sheltie are different. A barking lab might be a nuisance, but a barking Sheltie can drive you insane!!!!!

And a longer way of saying....would I debark if I had to? Yes! Would I do it if necessary? Yes. In my view its kinda like declawing a cat. I would declaw if my furniture was being destroyed despite having provided all the alternative scratching opportunities to my cat.

p.s. Bacca, who is not debarked, does not sound like a Sheltie at all! Mostly he sounds like Scooby Doo! Very "un-Sheltie-like". Someday, I have to tape him. It is just too funny!

 

[Ann]

It isn't so much that it "wears off" as that the tissue grows back, and then the bark returns as it was before. I don't think this is a product of the age it's done, but rather the dog. This is what happened with Barkley. I waited until he was over 2 to have him done. In a matter of months, his bark was as loud as ever so I had him done a second time. He still barks just as much as he ever did, and pretty nearly as loud. The difference is the tone isn't as shrill. You could not answer the phone in my house and hear the person on the other end. Ever. He barks at everything, all the time, still.

Checkers on the other hand is also debarked and has the most melodious, charming bark I've ever heard. I just love it. She clearly enjoys the sound she makes because she sings, constantly. You don't ever mind it.

Pixie has not been debarked, and doesn't need it. She's never been a barker unless she wants to tell you something. Out! Food! Attention!! And each one has a different bark. If they were all like her, debarking would not be necessary. But they're not.

I used to think it was horrible just like so many others. Education -- and experience -- is an amazing thing. Now, I know better. I would not debark every dog I own as a general practice. But I wouldn't hesitate if it were needed.

 

[OntarioSheltie]

I bet if you ask, many of us with multiple debarks will tell you how long we held out on the first one. For us it was two and a half years, and like I said, he is 15 and still never shuts up. Everyone initially has a mental hurdle to get over, then as Megan said, it gets normalized.

Minpins are another popular breed seen at the debark vet.

Thats kind of where we're at now with Ginny. I really don't WANT to debark her but it would be SO amazing if we didn't want to wear ear muffs when we play with her...

She is incapable of playing without barking and she has an incredibly loud, shrill bark. When she's at the park the entire neighborhood knows. Her bark drives us absolutely insane. I've often wondered if it would be less damaging to her psychologically if we had her debarked instead of always telling her to calm down when she's not really being bad. We try not to be too hard on her, buy honestly, our ear drums feel like they're going to explode some times.

Just Ginny, my other two don't bother us nearly as much.

And I had a room mate who had a really cute min pin. She was THE most ANNOYING dog that ever existed, she would NOT shut up and barked way more than any of my shelties ever have

Love it when someone steps in as "devil's advocate".

Debarking is not my first choice. And in Indy's case appears to not have worked at all.

Sidebar: Indy was debarked when I brought him home at almost 10 months, but his bark was nowhere as shrill as it now. Is it possible that the debarking wears off? or you have to wait for a certain maturity level to have it take?

I do think there is a difference between a Sheltie bark and certain other breeds, and maybe that's why there is less controversy over debarking Shelties vs. other breeds.

The majority of Shelties, when they bark, its like fingernails on a chalkboard. It just seems to hit your nerve center. Maybe that's breeding....remember Timmy falling into the well? You want your dog to alert, danger, alert! That's what herding dogs do. So a Sheltie bark is MEANT to be paid attention to.

When Indy barks, it's definitely an attention getter.
I'm guessing that labs and hound breeds bark in a lower tone that does not aggravate in the same way as a Sheltie bark.

Long way of saying, that the reasons for debarking a lab vs. debarking a Sheltie are different. A barking lab might be a nuisance, but a barking Sheltie can drive you insane!!!!!

And a longer way of saying....would I debark if I had to? Yes! Would I do it if necessary? Yes. In my view its kinda like declawing a cat. I would declaw if my furniture was being destroyed despite having provided all the alternative scratching opportunities to my cat.

p.s. Bacca, who is not debarked, does not sound like a Sheltie at all! Mostly he sounds like Scooby Doo! Very "un-Sheltie-like". Someday, I have to tape him. It is just too funny!

Yes, I feel exactly the same way. I find it shocking that so many people are so adamantly against debarking.

 

[BarbV]

Would love a vet to step in here and advise as to when and if the tissue grows back.

I've often wondered whether to "do" Indy again, though I've been focussing on training (not so successfully) instead.

 

[sheltiemom4]

I've read ALL these posts and have SERIOUSLY considered having it done, especially with Maggie. I must say though, I don't think it would help. She would still bark at feeding time, when I dry my hair, when I leave for work, riding in the car, etc.

I pretty much have decided against it!!! I just "tune" it out and my husband wears ear plugs in the car!

 

[Lightplum]

Would love a vet to step in here and advise as to when and if the tissue grows back.

I've often wondered whether to "do" Indy again, though I've been focussing on training (not so successfully) instead.

Its a well known fact just like with any surgery, scar tissue can develop and make the bark "loud" again. The only way to determine the extent of the scar tissue growth would be to go back down with a scope and at that point they could do the de-bark again...

Essentially what a debark is they take a biopsy punch and make nicks in the vocal cords so there is less resistance and air is going though creating a "softened" sound. What does happen over time is if scar tissue develops and covers the spot where the "punch" was done it will cancel out the debark.

 

[Crystal1]

How do you find out which Vet would be the best in your area for de-barking?
Buddy just turned 3 years old and basically he is pretty quiet. He simply cannot run and play without constant barking. If I tell him "Quiet" he simply quits playing. Also he barks for a few minutes when we leave in the car, and when he hears the car coming home. Soon we will be moving to an apartment, and I am concerned that it could be a serious problem.

We are moving to Ft Worth, TX, and I have read that they have some stiff laws about altering a dog. Anybody have some ideas?

Dayle