Higher Protein = More Energy?

[sable]

Over time any commercial dog food with protein over 28-30% will show up negatively in the results of the dogs blood work. A balanced dog food is what you want to strive for.
I just had Daisy's (age 14) geriatric blood work done, and it came back ideal EXCEPT where higher protein would affect the liver and kidneys. My vet specifically asked me how high the protein is in my food. He suggested changing her food to 22%, to reduce the stress on the organs. Unless your dog is planning on running the Iditarod, higher protein is overkill.

I have to agree with your vet. I think I have posted several times about how I feel about high protein. The only one I have to keep control over is the DH giving my Lucky Boy anything with peanut butter. He has been on good behavior and warns others don't give them any peanut butter. LOL! He has his listening ears on now with the furkids.

The bottom line here is, my two do well on Wellness. Lucky in all 10 years of his life has been to the vets once each year, except when DH messed up once, and one other time for his neuter. Lil' Lady in 5 1/2 years, has been to the vet once each year besides her spay. Lil' Lady certainly doesn't need to add to her behavior, since she is the Royal Highness. Ya gotta love em.

Great thread, and interesting.

 

[helps]

On the other side, if your and your vet's theory was right, BARF/raw diet would be killer for a dog. We talked about high proteints the other day -well, actually it's been quite a while, LOL and some ppl counted how is BARF comparable to Orijen and Acana's "high proteins"... and w/ raw diet dog is actually getting way higher protein. So then it's weird that BARF is considered (i think so,too) the best way of feeding dog huh? Just a thought. But I'm still pretty curious about answer of Champion petfoods. I hope they'll answer soon.

 

[ClantyreSheltie]

... and w/ raw diet dog is actually getting way higher protein. So then it's weird that BARF is considered (i think so,too) the best way of feeding dog huh?

You assumptions are incorrect. Raw diets are lower protein than many kibbles, as fed. Somewhere between 15 and 20%, depending on the meat source. This is because the meat is inclusive of water, where kibble is not. You can actually dig up the exact nutritional information of different meats on the USDA website. For example, 100 grams of chicken fryer (bones removed, since this is a human database) is 20 grams protein, 70 grams water.

http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/

If you dehydrated that food, as is done in kibble, those numbers will change drastically.

 

[take4roll10]

I still haven't heard anything from Acana, but as soon as I do, I'll let you know what they say.

I still have about 2-3 weeks left of Acana. A 5 pound bag really lasts a long time with one dog. When I'm down to one week left, I'm going to transition Bailey back to TOTW. I'm still using their kibble for treats, so I don't think the transition will take long. I'm still not happy about going back to TOTW after I recently purchased a bad bag of food that gave Bailey a little diarrhea. I'm so disappointed that Acana is working out for Bailey.

 

[danisgoat]

You assumptions are incorrect. Raw diets are lower protein than many kibbles, as fed. Somewhere between 15 and 20%, depending on the meat source. This is because the meat is inclusive of water, where kibble is not. You can actually dig up the exact nutritional information of different meats on the USDA website. For example, 100 grams of chicken fryer (bones removed, since this is a human database) is 20 grams protein, 70 grams water.

http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/

If you dehydrated that food, as is done in kibble, those numbers will change drastically.

Thanks for the clarification, Rachael. I didn't have time to look up the numbers....and by the time I got around to checking this again, you did it

 

[helps]

You assumptions are incorrect. Raw diets are lower protein than many kibbles, as fed. Somewhere between 15 and 20%, depending on the meat source. This is because the meat is inclusive of water, where kibble is not. You can actually dig up the exact nutritional information of different meats on the USDA website. For example, 100 grams of chicken fryer (bones removed, since this is a human database) is 20 grams protein, 70 grams water.

http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/

If you dehydrated that food, as is done in kibble, those numbers will change drastically.

I guess I should've mentioned they counted in everything including an annex (vegetables, pasta, bones... whatever they added) and i swear numbers were really a bit higher than any kibble i've seen. Though, I don't want to argue, I'm no mathematician, so I can't show you how it was done, lol. But at the end everyone agreed that feeding 100g/day of kibble ain't really that different from proteins in raw diet. I know it had something to do w/ the amount ....But anyway, what I know for fact is that dog food should have as little carbohydrates as possible and less protein =more carbohydrates (and vice versa). Dog being carnivore can deal w/ that protein, but carbs ain't so good. Of course, it's also VERY important where these proteins come from and of what quality they are. Though, Acana didn't really work well for my dog either, had a diarrhea on it. I think he might have been alergic to some of their ingredients. BUT Orijen is probably one of the best ones I've tried so far.

 

[Justicemom]

Some companies list b12 as ug and some as mg. Usually when it's .##, it's ug. Very is to convert: .11 ug is 110 mg.

I haven't looked at a label to I don't know values but ug is mircograms.

1000 umg is 1 mg. So your conversation is backwards. .11ug is .00011mg. That is very small so I wonder if you meant it the other way around.

 

[SheltieChe]

I guess I should've mentioned they counted in everything including an annex (vegetables, pasta, bones... whatever they added) and i swear numbers were really a bit higher than any kibble i've seen. Though, I don't want to argue, I'm no mathematician, so I can't show you how it was done, lol. But at the end everyone agreed that feeding 100g/day of kibble ain't really that different from proteins in raw diet. I know it had something to do w/ the amount ....But anyway, what I know for fact is that dog food should have as little carbohydrates as possible and less protein =more carbohydrates (and vice versa). Dog being carnivore can deal w/ that protein, but carbs ain't so good. Of course, it's also VERY important where these proteins come from and of what quality they are. Though, Acana didn't really work well for my dog either, had a diarrhea on it. I think he might have been alergic to some of their ingredients. BUT Orijen is probably one of the best ones I've tried so far.

eating natural food made from scratch vs eating processed food makes a big difference here in US- if you were actually to walk streets here you will see obscene amount of grossly obese people.... nothing like Europe specially countries that still rely on ol' good cooking and don't use car to drive to the store 1 block away
so to answer your question it is not only that meat is lower protein content than kibble but it is also natural form it is presented makes a difference...
By no means I want to start argument about raw food vs. kibble
as for vit B overdose it is really almost unknown in humans- there must be something else going on... if anything it is always can be improved... and I am NOT advocating for people drinking all those energy/ double/ triple shots drinks...

 

[helps]

I'm not gonna argue w/ you SheltieChe. Raw is the best thing possible. I feed my dog raw or home cooked food occasionally. Tho, I can't do that over the year, because I'm away from home. I hope I'll be able to feed him raw one day. But still, I think Acana/Orijen are still one of the best options out there, if you can't feed raw.

 

[take4roll10]

I'd love to feed raw, but can't for various reasons.

I did hear back from Acana on their Vitamin B levels. They never gave me an reason as to why their Vitamin B content is higher than many other brands. They just said their vitamin and mineral content is within safe levels defined by AAFCO. They also said "It is possible that our low temperature cooking process may be responsible for the higher vitamin content to some extent as “we do limit the amount of heat in our extruder and therefore not as many vitamins are destroyed by the heating process.”

I figured their levels were safe, but that doesn't explain why their levels are 4-5x higher than other brands.

Bailey does appear to have settled down a little bit. I did cut back on her food and she's not as crazy anymore. She still has some outbursts of energy and reactivity, but not as bad as before. I'm going to try going back to TOTW and see if I notice a difference.