corbinam
Moderator
I was thinking the same thing! He's as tall as the man's knee!
I am spitting bullets here! Toy Shelties? Bah!
- Thread starter BarbV
- Start date
I was thinking the same thing! He's as tall as the man's knee!
Calliesmom
Moderator
dawns2shelties
Forums Sage
Not to get picky here but I thought we weren't supposed to link to breeder websites. Althought this is the size chart it is still on a breeders site.
take4roll10
Moderator
I don't think this is a breeder's website. Looks like the club's website and there are no available puppies listed.
dawns2shelties
Forums Sage
She is a breeder.
I actually came across this website when we were looking at different breeders before we got Gizmo. So when breeding for smaller ones in particular, do you end up with more health issues? i have no experience with toy/mini breeds. So honest question for those that know about it; what is wrong with selective breeding for smaller dogs? im not starting anything, i honestly want to know. I have no experience with anything like this so i have no idea.
Justicemom
Forums Celebrity
The problem is that it is very hard to selectively breed for smaller size and still maintain breed type. Smaller shelties tend to have domed skulls, big round eyes , snippy muzzles and very fine bones more resembling a Pom then a sheltie. If you look at my Ember who is barely 13" and 13.5lbs you can see some of those characteristics coming out. One of the reasons Ember is spayed even though she is a very pretty dog in her own way. Without breed type, the breed is lost and it will cease to be that breed. Same happens with oversized shelties than tend to start to resemble Collies.
While both undersized and oversized shelties make good pets. They are not typey and thus should not be breed as to preserve type. No dog should only be breed to promote one trait, the goal of breeding should be on the whole overall package. JMHO.
ClantyreSheltie
Forums Sage
The problem is mainly that these people are breeding for a single trait, regardless of type and structure. There are pictures on one of the breeder sites of a sable dog with a pretty awful headpiece, and spindly, crooked legs with weak pasterns, described as "12 inches tall, producer of color-headed whites." In no way shape or form should this dog be bred, but she is, simply because she is small.
As the dogs get smaller, the heads get rounder, the eyes get bigger and bulgier, the bodies get spindly and weak. When you continually breed these negative traits together, you get Chihuahuas with a Sheltie coat.
Now, this is not to say that all small dogs have these traits. Small dogs who come from regular sized parents, who don't have the "small dog" traits behind them can be normal looking shelties, just little. Ch. Foxglove Too Darn Hot is 13" on her tippy toes. She is the grand-dam of my Marque. She has a beautiful headpiece, and moves like a big dog. She finished her Ch at just shy of her 11th birthday, which tells you the quality held. Two of her litter mates are all 15", and one is just shy of 16". She produced normal sized dogs.
So it's the repeated breeding of un-Sheltie like traits we don't want. And really, if you want a small, neurotic, dome headed, stick leg dog, get a Papillion.
You have to see this website!
They make it sound so "scientific"....they even post the growth charts as confirmation as the breeding program.
http://foxpointfarm.com/sheltie_size1.htm
I'm speechless (and you know for me that would take alot!)
Well...it IS scientific. In a horrible, "I'm going to breed the smallest teacup shelties I can by using this chart" way.
There's a breeder down the road from me that has small Shelties that are horribly foxy looking. I mean, they make really f'ing cute puppies, but to me, they're kind of....wrong...looking as adults. They always look in that state of perpetual puppy-hood. Which I guess I should like, because I want a 12 week old Sheltie puppy to stay 12 weeks...but not like that.
(Cookies for those who read through my rambling...)
As much as the whole mini/toy sheltie sucks, I do agree with one thing; shelties do seem to be getting bigger. Yes I know 16 is the max but it does seem like more and more show breeders are pushing the limit on size. If I wanted a collie/border collie sized dog I would have got one! I personally would like to see smaller 13-14" shelties be more competitive in the show ring.