Love everything about Shelties but the hair

[Lovely]

Caro - No matter what I ended up deciding (to trim or not to trim) I would definitely brush out the dog often. I really enjoy brushing dogs and will love having an outlet for that again! It's nice to know that it's not really a mortal sin, though may not be as effective as I'm imagining...

Diana - I have considered the Pap. Very tempting and some lovely Pap breeders down here, but my future dog will need to spend a good amount of time with people of all ages, including small children, and I'm currently thinking the Pap may be a little small for that. (For this reason I'm really iffy on the Iggy, too...)

I have two Shelties and one Papillon. Pierre (the Papillon) was the first dog. He is small (8 lbs) but well suited to playing with children. He has never shown fear or violence toward the young or the elderly. However, the Shelties are naturally reserved in new situations. Pierre DOES bark when he feels like it and can be quite vocal. Usually it is adorable - like a soft growl from the couch that says "come snuggle me!!" If you want a velcro-snuggle dog that can be trained athletically and is too smart for their own good, you would make a great Papillon owner. Another plus is that he is literally wash-and-wear. I brush him once a week unless he's going through his twice a year shed (then its everyday unless I want a black and white couch). We're going on at least 6 weeks since his last bath and someone who met him yesterday complimented how he smells.

Drawbacks are the extreme stubbornness, lack of level of devotion of a Sheltie (they love but do not do things to please you like a Sheltie does), and difficulty to housetrain.

If you have any other Pap questions, I'm here!

 

[Fergus]

CS - I am completely enamored of smooth collies, but realistically I would like a smaller sized dog. Why can't there be smooth shelties?

Word to the wise...I have a rough collie, a smooth collie and a sheltie. Of those three the SMOOTH collie is the worst for shedding!! Omigawd, it's everywhere!

The rough collie comes next...and the least problematic (hair wise) is my sheltie. He's small enough that it only takes a few minutes just to brush him out daily and if you keep up with the brushing, the shedding around the house is minimal.

 

[Karina]

Fergus - Ok, I'm starting to get the picture that longer hair in double-coated breeds has a benefit - the undercoat stays in and doesn't shed all over the place and if you brush it out daily or so (which I would most likely be doing anyway) then it might not be a big deal.

Maybe trimming it would be counter-productive and make the hair *more* work than less.

Lovely - Pierre sounds, well, lovely. In regards to housetraining, if I "went Pap" I would probably try to train to a litter box. Do you have any experience with that? Are Pap barks loud? Highpitched?

"If you want a velcro-snuggle dog that can be trained athletically and is too smart for their own good, you would make a great Papillon owner. Another plus is that he is literally wash-and-wear." Um, yes. Yes, I do want that. I will investigate them further, thanks.

One question - are Paps in general more energetic (possibly hyper?) than shelties?

 

[Karina]

I've been thinking about what drew me to shelties. Honestly the first one I knew in person was across the hall from us in a high-rise. He was left alone all day and barked constantly. I didn't think I liked shelties then.

But I visited a friend of mine who breeds them (as well as Kuvasz) and was blown away. It was their thoughtful approach, their gentleness. They seemed almost cat-like in the way they walked up and gazed up just wanting ear rubs and laying their heads in our laps. My youngest daughter came with me and sketched one as it sat there for her.

They all barked when we arrived (which I expected) and then settled down and the place was silent for the rest of the visit (that I did *not* expect). We have visited a few times since then and always been impressed. We have run around, played fetch, my youngest has been buried in a sheltie pile, and we have just really enjoyed their company.

The fur is irrelevant to me (ok, obviously actually a bit of a downside). Their intelligence, gentleness, soundness of health, and softness of personality are what attracts me.

Hope that helps to put this in context. Thanks!

 

[k9kreationz]

I was about to suggest a Corgi and saw that you posted another thread about it. lol.

Good luck with whatever you choose.

 

[Diana]

A couple additional notes:

- Your comments about how double-coated breeds shed are right on. Labs and beagles are actually much worse than Shelties in my opinions. At least with Shelties if you brush them regularly you actually get most of the hair out and in your brush, not in your couch!

- Some lines of Shelties have more "coat" than others. My childhood Sheltie had a very light coat and required minimal brushing (although her coat looked pretty full). My Sheltie now, Buffy, is what I call "hair-endowed." She has like three times the hair and requires more brushing than Abigail did.

- Shelties bark a lot when they are in kennels and in groups. If you have just one then it will bark a lot less. They kind of egg each other on in groups. You do need to train them not to bark though... sounds like your neighbor either didn't or couldn't.

- Shelties act different in groups than when you have one. Abigail was so funny.... since we got her at 3 years old from a breeder, it was cute to see how different she acted in the kennel. With the other dogs she would "dance" for treats - stand up on her hind legs - and compete for the most pets and attention. Then we got her home and she decided she was a person! Miss Lady Abigail decided she wanted to sleep on the softest couch and accepted only the best table scraps. But if we took her back to the kennel she'd turn the barking and dancing back on!

- It sounds to me like you really want a Sheltie. It's good you are thinking it through and considering other breeds first, though.

 

[seashel]

- Some lines of Shelties have more "coat" than others. My childhood Sheltie had a very light coat and required minimal brushing (although her coat looked pretty full). My Sheltie now, Buffy, is what I call "hair-endowed." She has like three times the hair and requires more brushing than Abigail did.

- Shelties bark a lot when they are in kennels and in groups. If you have just one then it will bark a lot less. They kind of egg each other on in groups. You do need to train them not to bark though... sounds like your neighbor either didn't or couldn't.

- It sounds to me like you really want a Sheltie. It's good you are thinking it through and considering other breeds first, though.

Just what I was thinking! Usually neutering does make for a thicker coat too. I don't know much about the tick issue (we have ticks and they can carry nasties but it is not a significant problem - at the moment...) but as far as brushing goes, mine are done every week, but if I miss a week, or even two, it is not a problem and I don't find that they mat at all. The undercoat goes a bit clumpy but is seperates easily and painlessly with normal brushing. I used to keep angora rabbits and my auntie had two beautiful persian cats, now these did mat/felt up rapidly if a day's brushing was missed, but sheltie hair, being coarser does not have that tendancy. I would personally not want a breed where daily grooming was essential as life often gets in the way, so from that aspect, I think you'll be fine with a sheltie coat. A pleasure to brush when you can, but not a welfare problem if you can't- within reason of course! Behined the ears is the only real matting zone and my boys only get these very rarely. Just returning to the angora rabbits, even when I scissored these I noticed the hair grew back denser and denser with each cut. One of my boys has also recently had an operation and had quite a bit of hair shaved off and it is certainly thicker than it was, so extensive trimming may well be counter productive.

I think you are doing exactly the right thing, considering all the options well in advance. I just wish everyone would put as much thought in prior to getting a dog. Whatever desicion you eventually make, at least you will know it is the right one.

 

[BarbV]

As others have said.....my Shelties shed less than my parents part-lab ever did. You could not touch him without shaking fur off your hands.

But I don't think that was your concern. I think you were originally concerned that the thick undercoat would be too heavy for your hot climate. In reality, the undercoat works as an insulator for both cold and extreme heat. Not that I would ever leave any dog outside in extreme heat for long, but it does the undercoat does actually benefit. Ask Caro, or any of our members in Florida or Arizona how they deal with the heat.

While I never shaved or overly trimmed the guard hairs, I did have a groomer convince me a couple of times to shave the belly. You don't notice it when they are standing or walking, but when they lie down on a cool floor, they seem to appreciate it.

As for barking Shelties.....all dogs bark. Problem is that Sheltie barks tend to be higher pitched so are really irritating. But they can be trained.

 

[Pal's Mom]

Barb had a good point. I got my first Sheltie when I lived in Florida. She was an inside dog but did go outside running with my older son when he was young. No issues with the heat. I now live in Arizona and have two Shelties, both young, 12 months and 15 months old. Their coats seem very different and they are from the same blood lines. I brush them behind the ears daily because they play and tug at each others ears one one of my boys will mat their if left alone. My boys have a doggy door so if it is too hot, them come in the air condition. I have not been able to get them interested in swimming in the pool, but they are welcome too. The heat does not seem to bother them at all.

Donna

 

[Karina]

We don't have a/c down here. It's ceiling fans, tile floors, high ceilings, and porches to insulate the house and keep it cool.

The car has a/c though.

I imagine that we would just do our exercising in the evening or morning when it is (theoretically) cool, set up a standing fan pointed at the crate, and keep the brushing up to date.

Where we live it's not like Amazon-hot or anything. It's danged pleasant most of the year but the summer is long and hot - no hotter than I remember the summer's in Indiana being though.

(Just editing to add that a/c does exist down here, we just don't have it. Ok, we do have one box unit in the guest room for my northerner sister when she visits. But it's only used once or twice a year by visitors.)