My Anxious Shelties - Toby and Ginny - Updates on their Progress

SheltieChe said:
it does wonders when your babies are happy, seems pups are doing great, am sure you feeling relieved! And I bet classes will do wonders for your gang, they sure making big difference for mine.
The only thing I would caution you from what you described, about using spray water bottle for barking. I use it ONCE and Che started lunging and bark even more at ANY sound of spray, grooming became nightmare and it took me FOREVER to counter conditioning it. VERY BAD advice, often given.
Outside if barking starts, U turn on GL , get enough distance, ask for behavior or tug, if not enough go back some more etc.
If my boys bark at something in the house like someone walking past the window- they just lost their privilege to be near that window, off the go in another room or on leash and get to spend some quality time on the mat with me. While timeout is still a punishment, it is more useful specially if you combine it with learning positive behavior for this situation as opposed to suppressing barking with water spray.
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I'm going to have to disagree on this, at least where Toby is concerned. Different things work for different dogs. Positive reinforcement is and always has been the main focus for Toby. Since I've had limited success with months of intense positive training, I think I'm going to stick with the behaviourist's training plan, which is still 99% positive.
 
That's fantastic news, I'm so glad the behaviourist was able to help you. It makes a huge difference when they can see how the dog reacts.
 
OntarioSheltie said:
I have no idea what sparked the sudden change in Ginny, its almost as sudden as when it started.

This morning she was MUCH calmer when I let her out in the morning and took the time to sniff and enjoy being out side. She even happily trotted up to me for affection, as if to say 'I'm feel better now Mommy.' I'm super glad.....but how weird.

All I can figure is the week away has helped her to deal with her fears.

I signed her up for a basic obedience class to help her with her confidence, but maybe I should switch to and advanced class after all. I figured an off leash class wouldn't be great since she's been all but glued to my leg, but now that she's doing better a basic class will be way to easy for her...
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The change is easy. I will use me as the example.

Once at a motorcycle race school we were taught how to go faster. Most people go until they panic then that is it. The world champion instructor says that is wrong. Go at a comfortable pace since you can think and react properly. Then increase it incrementally until you scare yourself. At that point back off just a notch. With more practice that pace will seem normal and you can begin the increase again. Do this until you run out of advancement.

So back to Ginny. When she was constantly terrified she was unable to advance. However when she got some relief she was able to slowly expand and realize that walks were not really scary she just thought they were. By reducing or removing the panic you put her in a position to advance.

Go Sadie!
 
SheepOfBlue said:
The change is easy. I will use me as the example.

Once at a motorcycle race school we were taught how to go faster. Most people go until they panic then that is it. The world champion instructor says that is wrong. Go at a comfortable pace since you can think and react properly. Then increase it incrementally until you scare yourself. At that point back off just a notch. With more practice that pace will seem normal and you can begin the increase again. Do this until you run out of advancement.

So back to Ginny. When she was constantly terrified she was unable to advance. However when she got some relief she was able to slowly expand and realize that walks were not really scary she just thought they were. By reducing or removing the panic you put her in a position to advance.

Go Sadie!
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That's a good point, but I'm not sure your analogy makes sense in Ginny's situation. I've been giving her Xanax for a couple of weeks (1 week continuously). Despite the medication I was still unable to walk her because it help her panic enough. Keep in mind that she wasn't really panicking at a 'thing,' she was just panicked in general so nothing was really removed.

That's my thinking anyway, but if you or anyone else thinks I'm missing something I'd love to hear it and discuss it further. Even though its been so emotionally draining and frustrating, I find dog psychology fascinating. :smile2:

I emailed Joan to update her on our progress. She suggested that Ginny's change may have come about from me ignoring her panicked behavior (when she panicked over nothing, not when something she perceived as scary really was around) and removing the pressure that I was inadvertently putting on her. Joan said these two things I did might have been enough to allow her to come out of her shell.
 
Here's specifically what I said to Joan the behaviourist and what her answer was. I'm blue and she's red:

Ginny under went a very sudden, but positive change yesterday. Yesterday morning she seemed calmer outside, even though I hadn't given her her medicine yet. I was happy with what I thought was slight improvement but didn't give it much thought.

When I got home from work I again noticed she seemed very calm, even though her medication had worn off (she usually was noticeably anxious) so I put off giving it to her. A while later when I got Toby and Sadie's leashes for their walk (I was going to bring out Ginny separately), Ginny ran to the door with the other two instead of running and hiding. To make a long story short, Ginny went on a 45 minute walk with my other two dogs and a friend's two dogs and showed very little fear. She did a bit of hopping at first and turned to go home at the nearest corner to our house, but only really showed minimal resistance.

I'm really not sure what caused this wonderful change, but I'm thinking its a combination of our vacation up north for a week (taking Ginny away from her usual fears and routine), the short walk that you and I took with her on Monday and the little bit of play. This morning when she went out to relieve herself she only a bit nervous, took the time to do some sniffing and trotted up to me on her own for attention. Its so nice to see the old Ginny returning!


Sounds great. It's really interesting, but I do see over and over that the subtle change of an owner to putting less pressure on the dog to engage with them or do anything can make enormous changes in the dog's sense of relaxation and calm. I'm glad to hear she's coming back.
 
That is truly interesting, so part of her problem was she was feeding off of your anxiety over her? Would of been fun to watch Joan wih Ginny. How has she done today?
 
Sumac3890 said:
That is truly interesting, so part of her problem was she was feeding off of your anxiety over her? Would of been fun to watch Joan wih Ginny. How has she done today?
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No, that's not it, I was focusing on her and working with her one on one to try and help her with her fears and I was also trying to get her to play with me. I thought giving her extra attention would help her, but apparently I was putting pressure on her.

I think its a similar situation to dogs who are afraid of people. If you look at them or try and interact with them they get very uncomfortable and feel pressured, which is why you should ignore a shy dog.

Ginny is about the same today. She's still inclined to hide in her crate, which is now in the living room, but she'll some times come out and play a little if the other dogs do too. She's still doing much better outside, but is still nervous.
 
OntarioSheltie said:
No, that's not it, I was focusing on her and working with her one on one to try and help her with her fears and I was also trying to get her to play with me. I thought giving her extra attention would help her, but apparently I was putting pressure on her.

I think its a similar situation to dogs who are afraid of people. If you look at them or try and interact with them they get very uncomfortable and feel pressured, which is why you should ignore a shy dog.

Ginny is about the same today. She's still inclined to hide in her crate, which is now in the living room, but she'll some times come out and play a little if the other dogs do too. She's still doing much better outside, but is still nervous.
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Melissa, I used your tactic with Lottie and her potty issues. Instead of coaxing her out and continuously telling her to potty, I just let her out and sit on the lanai now. I don't say anything to her at all about potty. It seems to be working. I think I was making it worse by concentrating so hard on it and putting pressure on her to go. Thanks for the insight!
 
MissSuzie said:
Melissa, I used your tactic with Lottie and her potty issues. Instead of coaxing her out and continuously telling her to potty, I just let her out and sit on the lanai now. I don't say anything to her at all about potty. It seems to be working. I think I was making it worse by concentrating so hard on it and putting pressure on her to go. Thanks for the insight!
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I'm glad if it helped you! It was really the behaviourist, not me. I never would have figured it out if she hadn't told me that piece of info. :smile2:
 
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