Pet Store Puppies

HopeShelties said:
It's a trend. Animal rights is pushing to get everything they possibly can banned that has to do with animals. It goes right along with licensing all breeders, limits on numbers of animals you can own, and mandatory spay neuter.
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I am not so sure that I am ready to lump all of these things together under the heading of "animal rights" groups wanting to "ban anything to do with animals". IMO, some of these issues are being pushed just as much by owners of animals and politicians as by "animal rights" organizations.

Whether I agree with the trends we are seeing or not, I am finding that more of the pressure towards licensing of breeders and limits on numbers of animals, comes from governmental agencies and/or politicians looking to appease their constituencies than from anywhere else. I don't know if my research is skewed or not, but I also find that the spay/neuter issue seems to be driven more from inside the ranks of the "dog owner" community than without. When you add to that, some of the issues that actually do arise because of "animal rights" groups, the issues gets even more messy.

Quite frankly, since coming here to SN, I have formed an opinion that pet stores are not good places to purchase a puppy. But, in all honesty, I have a diminished view of breeders also since coming here because of things I have learned on these pages. While there are many (many) wonderful breeders around the world, SN has taught me that even breeders are not immune to the same negative foibles to which the rest of the world falls prey (I had given that very little thought before joining SN). Even a cursory perusal of posts here reveals a myriad of pages decrying "pet store" pups, and I don't remember once reading that those negative ratings were being attributed to some "animal rights" group. Sort of reminds me of something my grandmother used to say. Paraphrasing: When we fix our hand to point a finger at the "animal rights" groups, there are three fingers on that same hand that point back at us.
 
You might want to look further into why people are pushing for these laws. Much of it stems from animal rights.
Frankly, I'm tired of seeing more animal regulation. It is becoming harder to be a dog breeder than to be a gun owner. Pretty screwed up.
http://www.humanewatch.org/ is pretty eye opening to read through and discover what is going on in the world of animal legislation.
 
Uuum, going back to the original thread which I think was about "How much us that doggy in the window".....

I 100% support banning of pet store dog and cat sales. I've no position yet on small animal and bird, but I expect that there is less issue of "mill syndrome", but I don't know that for a fact.

Fact is that no animal should be an impulse buy. And yes, I adopt out Humane Society cats at my store and I've sent more than one adoptee away because if concerns that I had. Dogs are never done outside the society btw. I'm not sure why they differentiate, but I always assumed it was because dogs are not easily cared for in stores.

I don't know what kind of regulations you are worried about....if you mean rules about how many dogs on site, proof of medical care, etc....then I would definitely support that.

That us what distinguishes breeders from puppy mills, in my mind. So regulate away! (As long as its not done by bureaucrats. :eek2:)
 
I can assure you that most small animals and birds that are sold in pet stores come from "factory" breeding establishments. The store I worked at bought, occasionally, birds from a breeder that was conscientious in their handling and husbandry but most, especially things like budgies, canaries, cockateels finches as well as rodents came from a well known pet supply manufacturer. It is the "go to" place to get these animals and unless the supply is down, forcing the pet store owner to seek out private breeders, most stores use them.
I have no issue with licensing breeders, no pre-warned inspections, no selling of pets on line or in stores. I do take issue with comparing neutering/spaying to docking and cropping just as I feel that dew claws should be at the breeder's discretion.
It shouldn't be too easy for someone to start producing animals for sale. Laws that might impact the breeder of integrity are also going to be the laws that shut down a lot of mills. I'm good with that.
 
Tagg said:
I can assure you that most small animals and birds that are sold in pet stores come from "factory" breeding establishments. The store I worked at bought, occasionally, birds from a breeder that was conscientious in their handling and husbandry but most, especially things like budgies, canaries, cockateels finches as well as rodents came from a well known pet supply manufacturer. It is the "go to" place to get these animals and unless the supply is down, forcing the pet store owner to seek out private breeders, most stores use them.
I have no issue with licensing breeders, no pre-warned inspections, no selling of pets on line or in stores. I do take issue with comparing neutering/spaying to docking and cropping just as I feel that dew claws should be at the breeder's discretion.
It shouldn't be too easy for someone to start producing animals for sale. Laws that might impact the breeder of integrity are also going to be the laws that shut down a lot of mills. I'm good with that.
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Well said. Couldn't agree more.
 
BarbV said:
Uuum, going back to the original thread which I think was about "How much us that doggy in the window".....

I 100% support banning of pet store dog and cat sales. I've no position yet on small animal and bird, but I expect that there is less issue of "mill syndrome", but I don't know that for a fact.

Fact is that no animal should be an impulse buy. And yes, I adopt out Humane Society cats at my store and I've sent more than one adoptee away because if concerns that I had. Dogs are never done outside the society btw. I'm not sure why they differentiate, but I always assumed it was because dogs are not easily cared for in stores.

I don't know what kind of regulations you are worried about....if you mean rules about how many dogs on site, proof of medical care, etc....then I would definitely support that.

That us what distinguishes breeders from puppy mills, in my mind. So regulate away! (As long as its not done by bureaucrats. :eek2:)
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Small rodents maybe maybe not, but the small birds (primarily parakeets) it's definitely a mill business. They jam so many into those cages, half of them end up sick. It's gotten better as more and more of the mall pet stores go away, but it's still an issue I see when I'm in pet stores that carry them.

In the past I always had a few parakeets, half acquired because I was worried about their chances of surviving.

The store we got Honey from was supposed to purchase only from responsible breeders, it's posted all over their website and windows...once we got her papers though I googled the seller name and he came up as having been shut down due to dirty mill conditions about 4 years earlier. Now all she carries is "designer dogs" and I suspect, in part based on how young she gets them, that they're all mill dogs.
 
Thank you for returning to the original subject. I was finding it odd that no one was discussing whether or not this is a good idea.
Rhode Island is a rather unique situation- we have a real shortage of adoptable dogs (unless you want a Pitt- another story for another time) and have about 9 people fighting over every desirable 'rescue' puppy. Puppies in shelters get adopted before they hit the floor. (Yes, this is a VERY good thing, and speaks very well for local pet responsibility.)
Sure, it would be wonderful if everyone bought puppies from the kind of marvelous breeders we have here , who have well managed breeding programs and do all the requisite testing. The only thing wrong with that plan is it is never going to happen.
And, frankly, I am getting VERY tired of dealing with 'rescues' of dogs from Louisiana and Texas loaded with demodex and heartworm that someone paid a $500 'rehoming' fee for.

As with most things, it is a complex problem, and I see the argument both ways. Sadly, my feeling is that government doesnt do anything well, but it REALLY doesnt do 'science' well, where facts supersede agendas.
 
I dislike when they have dogs for sale in a store. Petland still has dogs for sale in my area. I found a sheltie in another small store and I told them I better never see a sheltie penned up again. The sheltie was the only pup they had.

When they sell the dogs, they list them CKC where the breeder was either kicked out of AKC, its a mutt, or they never registered the litter. Its sure not
Candian Kennel Club.

CKC must stand for what? Culprits Know Cash.
 
Just realized that I used bureaucrats and regulations in the same sentence

So who will enforce? Shelters, rescues, general public, journal media and social media. And the feet on the street...bylaw officers and police.

About 6 years ago, I was able to mobilize local authorities to go after a puppy mill I'd found. They truly tried to nail them. They didn't have any luck then, but a few years later they were finally nailed. The big Quebec scandal. They were particularly hard to nail because they used "fosters" to hold the pup for pickup so no one ever saw the mill.

It really comes down to supply, demand and education. If you allow the supply, then puppy mills will continue. Of course, removing the supply chain forces them to go underground......and online buying even easier eg kiijjiji. And hence education.

I really don't think any person would buy from a puppy mill if they truly understood that is where the pup comes from. But people can be ignorant, and uninformed. You go to your favourite pet store and they have cute pups...well, you trust them because they help you with feeding decisions


Ps....on that note, I lump these pet store owners in with the puppy mills. These owners KNOW where they are coming from! Yet they can advise customers in animal care on one side of their mouth and sell puppy mills on the other

Ok I'm done venting now!
 
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