Well...today the most adorable collie pup came in-we don't have a lot of collie patients at our vet hospital. He was adorable, about 9 weeks old about 20 lbs. As Tofu Pup mentioned the lack of a stop in the face was most noticeable and he was very thick boned.. He will be a big boy. He was very outgoing, no reservation or shyness to him at all. I am looking forward to watching him grow up. I want one.
Sheltie or a Miniature Collie - the great debate!
- Thread starter BarbV
- Start date
I'd have to say that the head and size are the two most obvious differences in these two breeds. When I was a young thing, Collie heads and eyes were much more like that of shelties than today. Now they are quite elongated with little stop and small eyed. The Collie "smarts" seems to have suffered as well. I will say that the colour headed white girl that we transported for rescue was quite bright, loaded with energy and appeared highly trainable but it's been awhile since I have seen one like that. Dave and I were tempted but realized that her energy level and ours wouldn't be compatible.
As an aside, the Belgian varieties should look the same with only coat being the difference. The temperment of the Malinois and the Laeken are much stronger than the Terv or the Groenendael. The outline that is seen most commonly today in the ring is that of the European dogs and is more collie-like. As a Belgian owner and ex breeder I am quite used to having my breed mistaken for a cross. In fact, one of the first thing you will be told by a Belgian breeder is that it is the breed to buy if you don't care that EVERYONE will think it is a cross.
Even with my westies I have been asked whether they are white cairns, which they did come from but haven't for over 100 years. Tempermentally they are quite different and don't have the bone as the westie. I would be okay until someone would call about puppies and asked if they come in any other colour but white- "West Highland WHITE terrier".
So far I have had Tin mistaken for a Mini Aussie - you know, the breed that isn't. Then again, one lady, acting quite knowledgeable, announced to her husband that his colouring was blue pearl. Hmmmm
As an aside, the Belgian varieties should look the same with only coat being the difference. The temperment of the Malinois and the Laeken are much stronger than the Terv or the Groenendael. The outline that is seen most commonly today in the ring is that of the European dogs and is more collie-like. As a Belgian owner and ex breeder I am quite used to having my breed mistaken for a cross. In fact, one of the first thing you will be told by a Belgian breeder is that it is the breed to buy if you don't care that EVERYONE will think it is a cross.
Even with my westies I have been asked whether they are white cairns, which they did come from but haven't for over 100 years. Tempermentally they are quite different and don't have the bone as the westie. I would be okay until someone would call about puppies and asked if they come in any other colour but white- "West Highland WHITE terrier".
So far I have had Tin mistaken for a Mini Aussie - you know, the breed that isn't. Then again, one lady, acting quite knowledgeable, announced to her husband that his colouring was blue pearl. Hmmmm
Calliesmom
Moderator
Sheltie books, including Sheltie Talk- pretty much every one that I have read or partially read starts out with history of the breed and how shelties differ from collies.
the breed standards of both are different- at least on the AKC site- have never looked at CKC site.
plus I believe that there have been other threads on this exact topic............
the breed standards of both are different- at least on the AKC site- have never looked at CKC site.
plus I believe that there have been other threads on this exact topic............
BarbV
Forums Celebrity
Sorry, I'm going to be a pain in the derriere and keep pushing this discussion. The reason I'm pushing is I'm trying to closure on the mini-collie vs. sheltie discussion.
Yes, I get that there are subtle physical characteristics. Size and stop are the obvious ones....but even those become blurred with oversized shelties or undersized collies.
Perhaps if we remember back when shelties became a registered breed....but they changed so much since then, and really started to look more and more like mini-collies
So I'm going to throw it out there again.....What is the true difference between a small collie and a Sheltie???"
Discussion about subtle physical differences like "stop" is interesting....but the shape of the stop does not define the dog
Yes, I get that there are subtle physical characteristics. Size and stop are the obvious ones....but even those become blurred with oversized shelties or undersized collies.
Perhaps if we remember back when shelties became a registered breed....but they changed so much since then, and really started to look more and more like mini-collies
So I'm going to throw it out there again.....What is the true difference between a small collie and a Sheltie???"
Discussion about subtle physical differences like "stop" is interesting....but the shape of the stop does not define the dog
Jess041
Forums Enthusiast
A sheltie is not a mini collie because it is simply not a collie in miniature. Unlike a miniature poodle, we did not get a sheltie by breeding small collies over and over until we got a desired size of between 13 and 16 inches.
A quote from wikipedia- "Unlike many miniature breeds that resemble their larger counterparts, this breed was not developed simply by selectively breeding the Rough Collie for smaller and smaller size. The original sheepdog of Shetland was a Spitz-type dog, probably similar to the modern Icelandic sheepdog. This dog was crossed with mainland working collies brought to the islands,[6] and then after being brought to England, it was further extensively crossed with the Rough Collie, and other breeds including some or all of the extinct Greenland Yakki, the King Charles Spaniel (not the Cavalier), the Pomeranian, and possibly the Border Collie. The original Spitz-type working sheepdog of Shetland is now extinct, having been replaced for herding there by the Border Collie."
A collie has a much different and longer history, going back to the 18th century http://www.collieclubofamerica.org/breed_history.html.
I'm starting to feel like no matter what, you're never going to be satisfied with any answers we provide.. maybe if you specified what you're looking for? You've gotten quite a few good answers here...
A quote from wikipedia- "Unlike many miniature breeds that resemble their larger counterparts, this breed was not developed simply by selectively breeding the Rough Collie for smaller and smaller size. The original sheepdog of Shetland was a Spitz-type dog, probably similar to the modern Icelandic sheepdog. This dog was crossed with mainland working collies brought to the islands,[6] and then after being brought to England, it was further extensively crossed with the Rough Collie, and other breeds including some or all of the extinct Greenland Yakki, the King Charles Spaniel (not the Cavalier), the Pomeranian, and possibly the Border Collie. The original Spitz-type working sheepdog of Shetland is now extinct, having been replaced for herding there by the Border Collie."
A collie has a much different and longer history, going back to the 18th century http://www.collieclubofamerica.org/breed_history.html.
I'm starting to feel like no matter what, you're never going to be satisfied with any answers we provide.. maybe if you specified what you're looking for? You've gotten quite a few good answers here...
Ann
Moderator
Jess is right, Barb. Several people here have given you good, definitive answers. I suggest you read the Shetland Sheepdog standard and the Collie standard, both of which can be found on the AKC website. Perhaps that will answer your questions. I can't think of anything more than has already been said.
Nostradamus
Forums Regular
Is it true that miniature collie is more calm than shelties ?
I think all of the responses have answered it pretty good, Megan (tofupup), Ann, and Jess as long as myself have all pretty much answered the same question...I guess im pretty much confused on what else your exactly looking for???
My favorite answer to this question is they are not collies because the collie people didn't want them to be called collies. It's just a name. They could be called Bang Potholders and that would be fine with me.
ASSA put the originals at like 50% collie, so call them half collies if you want.
Don't see why anyone that owns a sheltie should get worked up over the name mini collie, we should use it to our advantage to make the collie owners mad.
ASSA put the originals at like 50% collie, so call them half collies if you want.
Don't see why anyone that owns a sheltie should get worked up over the name mini collie, we should use it to our advantage to make the collie owners mad.
BarbV
Forums Celebrity
I think all of the responses have answered it pretty good, Megan (tofupup), Ann, and Jess as long as myself have all pretty much answered the same question...I guess im pretty much confused on what else your exactly looking for???
Actually, Jess is the only one that answered the question to some de=gree...every one else gave Timmy stories. LOL!
I finally got an answer. Though I still have questions.
I'd never heard that Shelties were developed from spitz breeds! That's news, and is that common knowledge? If so, then this would go a long way to finally put to bed the question of Collie vs. mini Collie. It truly would be a new breed
BUT.....early shelties looked more like border collies.....no spitz there....Eyes spinning!