The Last Straw with Ellie! Rant/vent

I think that only a vet would be able to properly answer your questions about medication. And I'm certainly not a vet. But at this point you have done pretty much all you can do in the training area, so I think it's completely legit to explore other options. Including whatever medication or supplements are available as treatments for anxiety.

You can always go back and re-examine what you did yesterday, but it's over and done and you did your best with the situation at hand. Taking Ellie for a walk was perfectly logical. It's time to deal with the present and the future, not the past. If you have a dog who bites, even if it is an "understandable" situation or bite, you need to do something about it. Both for you and your husband and for your neighbors and their kids (and dogs). Yes, it was an especially stressful situation for you and Ellie. But you still need to make sure that she does not bite again; it is your responsibility. It might not be you or your husband next time.

You will be able to handle this, and I know you will find a way. No one else knows your dog better than you. :smile2:
 
First and foremost, I'm sorry you are having this issue with Ellie. Dog bites are never a good thing. I hope your DH is feeling better.

Lahree, even with the best of intentions we all make mistakes. I fully understand where you are coming from and why you are asking the questions you are asking. Be careful how much you stress yourself out over these questions because it may add to Ellie's stress. For some of them, the answer truly is "I did my best with what I knew AT THE TIME." This is an entirely new experience for all of you.

That said, talk to the vet and see about medications. If they don't help Ellie, you can always stop them. (Make sure you follow doctor's instructions for stopping anxiety/anti-depression meds.)

I had Edan on Zoloft for a few months because he was struggling to get over the loss of our Finnish Spitz and it did help.

Another option, if you aren't ready to try medication, is to try a Thundershirt. There are a few people on the forum who use them and they do help with anxiety from a variety of sources; I know someone who uses them on their Belgian Tervurens for storm anxiety and they do help. (I'm actually thinking about getting one for CJ for car trips.) They are guaranteed to help reduce a dog's anxiety or money back (within 30 days).

Good luck with Ellie and the challenges. You really are doing all you can for her. If you were a good Sheltie Mom for her, you'd have called a rescue after the first bite happened. Don't doubt yourself, you ARE doing your best based on what knowledge you have.
 
I've read all the posts and I agree that it was the tornado that spooked her and now she is terrified. I basically have the same situation where fear is concerned with Maggie. (Not biting though) When she was a puppy, a VERY LOUD crack of thunder occurred while she was laying next to me in the bed and it frightened her so bad that she jumped and literally fell of the bed. Ever since, I can tell it's going to storm and she hears the thunder before I do. She paces, growls and barks during the entire storm. It does calm her down alittle if I crate her. I think she feels secure, and doesn't feel that she has to protect me.

Don't give up on her. Just be aware she has this issue and prepare for it. GOOD LUCK!!!!!!!!!!!
 
I have a Kathy Sdao’s DVD “Cujo Meets Pavlov” and one thing I remember very clearly from it is that ANY dog will bite, given the quantity and combination of stressors.

One or two things alone (a certain dog, the delivery truck, the doorbell ringing, a kid on a skateboard, the weather) might be a source of stress for a given dog, yet not put the dog over threshold where it bites. However, if a number of these things were to occur within x-period of time, the dog might be provoked to bite.

I understand where you are coming from in wondering whether you might be a possible cause for Ellie’s anxiety, as I have wondered the same about myself. I agree that our anxiety does not help, but there are other things in the environment that may be impossible to control / avoid for dogs that are particularly sensitive. Please don’t beat up on yourself.

I think that the suggestion to consult with your vet about medication is very worthwhile. Just know that I’m following your situation and Melissa’s with Toby very closely, wondering whether Snap could benefit from something as well to reduce his anxiety with motion triggers. Pls keep us posted.
 
The thing about Ellie is that her behavior is NOT and NEVER HAS BEEN a "constant." That is the biggest reason I have problems knowing what to do for her.

She loves people/she's afraid of people
She loves walks and acts perfect and totally happy and prances/she is scared on walks and anxious
On a walk she growls and lunges at other dogs she sees/she totally ignores other dog she sees
On a walk she growls and lunges at dogs that are in their fenced yards/she totally ignores them/she is terrified of them and tries to run away
She loves to go on rides and lays down on the seat and sleeps/She wants to go for a ride but is anxious and tries to get and and pace in a moving car
In the dog park: She growls and lunges at the dogs that are ignoring her and are playing inside the enclosed areas/she totally ignores the dogs that are in the enclosed area
In the dog park: She loves some dogs and ignores others/She hates all the dogs and growls and snaps at them to keep their distance
She loves having playmate Ginger over to the house and welcomes her/She periodiaclly attacks her and bites her hard enough to make Ginger scream

WIth such diverse reactions to normal things and situations, I am totally perplexed at how she is going to act on any given day. To my point of view (obviously hers is different) I don't know of any factors that would adversly affect her otherwise I would NEVER put her in a situation that I felt that she could not handle or that was overhwelming for her. However, I never know what is the deal with her beforehand. She is a total enigma to me after two and a half years.

She has never, ever even had the slightest reaction to a storm. She sleeps through it. We have tried very, very hard to NOT react to storms ourselves since she was a baby. Even when a storm in scary, we talk in normal tones, try to keep the anxiety out of our voices. Try to keep our actions very calm. I totally realize that I did not have a calm reaction to the tornado. I was home all alone and that was the scariest thing I have ever been through. Ellie was growling at the rattling door and that was the only reaction to a storm that I have ever seen and the only visible reaction I saw for the tornado. I left her inside when it was all over and I was outside talking to neighbors because I knew that would be too much for her. I never thought that the walk the next day would overwhelm her otherwise I would never have taken her.

See how I am at my wits end with how to help this dog? I literally don't know from one minute to the next what makes her overwhelmed. I thought the dog class she is in would be a confidence builder--maybe that is too much for her to handle?? I don't know! Is it pushing her too much? Am I expecting too much? Is it really helping her or just making her overwhelmed for a hour and a half?
 
One or two things alone (a certain dog, the delivery truck, the doorbell ringing, a kid on a skateboard, the weather) might be a source of stress for a given dog, yet not put the dog over threshold where it bites. However, if a number of these things were to occur within x-period of time, the dog might be provoked to bite.
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Yes, I have read this too. This is why Ian Dunbar, who wrote our doggie bible, recommends teaching bite inhibition as the most important part of puppy education. I don't know if it works for grown dogs (it might be one of those "sensitive period" things), but here you go: http://www.dogstardaily.com/training/teaching-bite-inhibition
 
Lahree said:
See how I am at my wits end with how to help this dog? I literally don't know from one minute to the next what makes her overwhelmed. I thought the dog class she is in would be a confidence builder--maybe that is too much for her to handle?? I don't know! Is it pushing her too much? Am I expecting too much? Is it really helping her or just making her overwhelmed for a hour and a half?
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The fact that she is so unpredictable...I would suggest hiring a behaviorist. There might be something Ellie sees or senses about a certain dog. That is why she reacts to some and not others. A behaviorist will notice the subtle body languages that a dog emits. I'd also talk to your vet. Living every day with anxiety like hers is not healthy. She may need medication.
 
take4roll10 said:
The fact that she is so unpredictable...I would suggest hiring a behaviorist. There might be something Ellie sees or senses about a certain dog. That is why she reacts to some and not others. A behaviorist will notice the subtle body languages that a dog emits. I'd also talk to your vet. Living every day with anxiety like hers is not healthy. She may need medication.
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I have done a google search and when I search for a dog behviorist, it just gives me dog trainers in my area. :(
 
I went to the APDT website and scrolled down about halfway on this page to their note (and box that follows) regarding dog trainers and behaviorists:

http://www.apdt.com/petowners/choose/certifications.aspx

You can then click on The Animal Behavior Society link and see a list of people with certifications. Doesn't seem as though there are many listed, but I do see one in Austin and one in College Station. That's probably a trek for you .........

You might want to speak with your vet first and explore something in a low dose ?
 
I would remove the dog park from the mix. Those places are not good for dogs without coping skills, and Ellie may lack those skills right now. And they are unpredictable, which you see in her reactions.

Can you simplify her life down to house/yard/immediate area around house? No stores, no parks, no outings, etc. until she learns to cope and react appropriately? I think her brain may be a little overwhelmed.

I also wonder if she has a mild seizure thing going on. I only ask because my landlords Poodle is medicated for seizures (potassium bromide), and she occasionally has these "fits". The last one caused her to run the fence and slide in the mud, over and over and over and over. Nothing stopped her until Jacky was able to catch her. This resulted in both Poodle and Jacky being covered in mud, and the Poodle getting a bath. It was like the Poodles brain had spun up and couldn't calm down. Her aggression has increased as well. She can't be out with my dogs, because she attacks one of them regularly. They used to be able to coexist in the yard.

Anyway, I wonder if Ellie's little brain is mixing signals all over.
 
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