Trying to dominate or is it play

Yep, MMM "waits" at the doors and the gates of our house in town because it is on a busy street. At the Lamb Rd (in the middle of no where and the back of beyond) property, he BARRELS out the door ahead of me.

Never once has he questioned who goes out the door of the house in town first. Never once has he waited nicely at the back door of the house on Lamb Rd, but instead about knocks me over to get back to his brook and swamp.

Bailey is the same exact way! She will run me over without even looking back to get out the back door. However, she wouldn't even think twice about doing that at the front door. I always make her sit and wait before we walk out the front door. I live on a main road and do not want her thinking she can just run out anytime she wants.
 
Bailey is the same exact way! She will run me over without even looking back to get out the back door. However, she wouldn't even think twice about doing that at the front door. I always make her sit and wait before we walk out the front door. I live on a main road and do not want her thinking she can just run out anytime she wants.
Then I think Cesar would say you have a very smart dog who knows there is danger if he runs out the front door, but running out the back door is very different and it is safe.
Sandstorm doesn't like to watch Cesar because there is too much barking and he can't go in the T.V. to get the dogs out.
Karen
 
Bailey is the same exact way! She will run me over without even looking back to get out the back door. However, she wouldn't even think twice about doing that at the front door. I always make her sit and wait before we walk out the front door. I live on a main road and do not want her thinking she can just run out anytime she wants.

This is the same with Meggie. She will barrel out the back door because I've allowed her to. But the front door is a different story. She waits to be invited outside and often it takes two invitations before she'll come. I guess she wants to make sure she's heard me correctly.

Cooper is not allowed out the front door without his leash. Yesterday I was moving some furniture and had the door opened. He started to head out and I called him back. He stopped on a dime and came to me. I was so proud! Shut him on the lanai after that until we were done. He "sang" the entire time. I've never locked him outside before. Pretty funny boy!
 
:yes: lol
what they all said :) Not dominating
*grumble* CAesar Milan* grumble*
I used to worry if Toffee was 'talking' whether that was him trying to be the boss... just to learn he really was just talking and grunting.. none of my other dogs ever did that... of course never had a Sheltie before

This makes me giggle!

Girl...you should hear Jasper talk.I mean he just goes and goes,sputtering.everytime you say a word,he adds his two cents.I will get him on video.he about had Brian & I in stitches the other day.
 
I don't quite understand what qualifies a person to be a "real dog expert".
I also never said I disagreed with them, I never read them.
Karen

The articles as well as personal past experiences with compulsion training are what I based my opinions on! I can post them again, if anybody is interested. Also the SPCA who strongly spoke out against Caesar Milan and some of his outdated methods. He is NOT even a dog trainer, he even says so himself! He was a groomer and watched a pack of semi-feral dogs in Mexico when he grew up and learned from his grandfather.

""Don't try this at home" messages are flashed throughout the show, and in September, the American Humane Association requested that the National Geographic Channel stop the show immediately, citing Millan's training tactics as "inhumane, outdated and improper."

Of course positive enforcement training camps don't have the Hollywood machine behind them... wish we could all view Victoria Stillwell instead here in North America to get to see OTHER options than what Caesar thinks is the best method... HIS ;)
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/10/15/CMGPHL9D1N1.DTL
and
http://www.sheltieforums.com/showthread.php?t=6142&page=5
 
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I've personally been confused to no end by this whole dominance/alpha thing myself. If you're interested, Karen, you could read up on wolves and how they interact in a pack. It may not necessarily apply to dogs but it's interesting nonetheless. David Mech, who is like the wolf god in science, and who came up with the whole alpha theory, admitted that he was wrong. Here's something to read http://www.wolf.org/wolves/learn/basic/resources/mech_pdfs/267alphastatus_english.pdf

I'm no CM fan but it's not like I haven't given him a chance - watched his shows, read his books, looked into what people said about him, etc. But if I had a behavioural problem, I'm pretty sure my mum will take me to see a psychologist and/or a psychiatrist with proper training, knowledge and experience. I'm certain she won't take me to a witch doctor! Unlike people like Dr Ian Dunbar, Patrica McConnell, etc, who have formally studied dog behaviour and can call themselves dog behaviourists, CM has no formal training or learning with dogs which suggest (to me) that his methods are not based on established science. While paper qualifications aren't everything, it's as good as me, having read tons of books and trained a couple of dogs, being on national tv telling everyone what to do with their dog! :lol: In any case, CM is not the only one whose methods I will not use.

Incidentally there is going to be a symposium where CM and other dog trainers and behaviourists will attend to discuss CM's methods. I'm not sure what will come out of that.
 
That is an interesting article about the wolves, very similar to the education piece we hear when we visit the wolf pack in Ipswich, Mass. I truly never thought the discussion about Cesar Milan would trigger such emotion from people on this list (including myself). I have come to the conclusion that it just isn't that important, and I will keep my mouth shut from now on.
I haven't read any books (except for one, which was useless to me) or articles, I don't have any Cesar books either. If I have a real problem with the dog, that would be a different story, but I don't. We should all be proud of the way we treat our dogs, I know I am.
Karen
 
It is interesting how this is playing out. Unlike some of you, Cesar Milan has never caused me any harm, so I will not discount his techniques, like some of you can.
One thing that I feel that we should keep in mind. These wonderful creatures are excellent judges of human behavior. With our larger brain, we should be as tuned to their behavior as they are to ours. As we all know, they respond to our tone of voice and posture when we communicate to them. Their response depends on the inflection of our voices and the stance we take on when we talk to them, more so than what we say. We can say the same word in different ways, but it is with the certain tone that gets the action we require. It is the manner we say them, that get their attention, as well as our stance that matters.
We too, should learn their behavior in order to understand their intentions.
What we get to see from CM is dogs, having issues, visually posturing and behaving against their environment. These actions are the ones that he sees as requiring modification. What a dog does is not the issue, his posture/stance in that action is what he redirects.
To automatically think that just because a dog does certain things is always a dominating action is well,,,,,,, you know.
After all these years of enjoying the intelligence of these wonderful beings, and trying to understand them, it took our Lily to finally turn the light on (so to speak) on the questions that have pestered me all these years. I do not have all the answers, but I can see how certain issues played out for me before.
As some of my other postings indicate, I now know that the understanding of the pack concept, and the dogs standing in that pack, can be a deciding factor in how effective we can be in correcting some of the behaviors that are troubling to us.
Establishing the dominance status, is a tool to try to communicate in an area that they understand more than we, and since we need all the tools that we can muster,to understand them, why not.
I do not endorse CM, nor any other so called professionals, just as do not I tout my self as an authority. What works for me and lets me understand them more, making the relationship with them a peaceful, respectful time is what motivates me.
Just as we are all individuals, so are they. Not everything always works for all of them. One thing that I have a basic knowledge of is my easy map to understanding what motivates them, and at the same time causes no roadblocks into their understanding of me.
As far as credentials for someone to be considered an authority on these beautiful beings, Sheltie or not, give me the one who has the time and experience with them, over someone with a "title", any day. Experience beats "in theory", for me any day also. IMHO
 
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