Dogs grieving one another

[Sumac3890]

We let Maggie sniff Lady and Katie before we buried them and we did he same with our cat. Maggie did not miss Lady so much as she was young and they were together a short time. Maggie did miss Katie and looked for her for weeks after her death- it was heart breaking. What did I miss about Edan? Can some one point out the post for me?
I could not keep a dead animal on the house, that would be to creepy.

 

[labgirl]

I am a firm believer that animals grieve and therefore have a concept of death. After all you can take one dog out on its own and the other dog will not be fussed (unless they are inseperable and suffer seperation anxiety, but let's say they are dogs that are often walked alone). They do not search for the other dog or show signs of mourning. But when that dog is actually passed they show completely different emotions.

I have owned a range of animals, from small to large. I have witnessed animal grief in a variety of forms.

Last summer my dear guinea pig Custard became suddenly ill. I knew it was serious and took her to the vets. She had suffered a severe heart attack and was slowly dying. My vet gave me the option of having her PTS or taking her home to linger and die in the hutch with the others. I chose PTS as taking her home and letting her suffer seemed too cruel.

When I came home her sister Ginger was sitting next to the spot where Custard had last been. Custard had been huddled near the hutch ramp, Ginger was sitting as if her sister was still there. She had not been there when I took Custard, but had only gone there after I had taken Custard to the vets. She stayed there for the afternoon. For several days after my two remaining GPs were very quiet.

If that wasn't grief for a passed friend then I don't know what is.

My personal preference would be having a dog PTS at home, if that is an option. Just because it is less stressful for an already sick dog. I don't think it will reduce the grief of the other pets however, only time and the relationship with the owner can do that.

 

[Caro]

Oh dear, a little OT but this thread made me so sad today. I kept having to cuddle my pups all day because thinking about losing them has just made me so upset. I must be just too oversensitive.

 

[Silaria]

What did I miss about Edan? Can some one point out the post for me?

I believe the post Cheryl is referring to regarding Edan is this one: http://sheltieforums.com/showthread.php?t=8631

Quick summary is that nearly two years ago (it'll be 2 years in February specifically) we had to PTS our 17 year old Finnish Spitz, Melody. Mel was 15 when we brought a 7 month old Edan home so they didn't really play or interact very much so we were caught off guard by how much he missed his big sister.

He essentially shut down - didn't get the zoomies through the house, wouldn't play with his toys (his favorite was the Kong Wubba), would just on the floor or on his pillow and look mopey. The only time I saw a glimmer of the 'happy Edan' was at Agility practice. While this improved a little after about 6 months, during visits with the breeder and his original pack, he still really didn't want to run and play.

Fast forward to this year. We brought CJ home in April as a companion for Edan in the hopes that our 4 year old would start to act like a 4 year old and have some fun. In November, during our Thanksgiving visit to NJ, Edan started to chase CJ around the yard - it was a MAJOR breakthrough since this was the first time they engaged in any sort of play. In the weeks leading up to Christmas, Edan's play drive has increased and want to play fetch and tug and wrestle. He and CJ still need to work out the "play" signals indoors but its getting there.


So, now that I've derailed this thread explaining the origin of Cheryl's question , I'm going to add my one two cents to the discussion. (I've only tried to write this three different times already.)

Dogs definitely feel grief, depression, and loneliness; I've lived it with Edan for the past two years. Some come back from it faster than others and some need a little help; either medical or companionship.

Does having the vet come to the home to PTS your dog's companion make it easier on them? Honestly, I don't have an answer for that. In some ways it makes sense but, in others, I have to wonder if we are imposing human emotion and logic on the animals.

I'm NOT trying to discount the experiences some of you have had with your animals regarding the passing of their companions. Its very touching to see them react in this way and does reinforce the fact that we don't really fully understand the psychosis of our animal companions.

Personally, I'd have to say it really depends on the animal. We all know that every one of them has a different personality; more withdrawn, outgoing, playful, diva, etc. Those individual personalities probably play a factor in how they handle a companion's passing; which is really the same for us - we all handle grief differently because of our personalities.

 

[Caro]

Personally, I'd have to say it really depends on the animal. We all know that every one of them has a different personality; more withdrawn, outgoing, playful, diva, etc. Those individual personalities probably play a factor in how they handle a companion's passing; which is really the same for us - we all handle grief differently because of our personalities.

Great post Silaria, and really interesting thoughts.

 

[take4roll10]

Oh dear, a little OT but this thread made me so sad today. I kept having to cuddle my pups all day because thinking about losing them has just made me so upset. I must be just too oversensitive.

same here. When I got home last night, I gave Bailey a big hug and told her she's not going anywhere until she a very, very old girl.

I have trouble reading threads like this and the sheltie angel threads. I just don't want to even think about losing Bailey anytime soon.

As for the OP, when my sheltie angel passed away, my maltese, who was two at the time had a lot of trouble moving on. It's been 6 years since she passed away and my maltese is still grieving. She is not the same dog she was back then. She used to be a spunky and silly maltese. Now all she does is sleep and eat.
I really don't know if it would've made a difference to her if she was able to see my angel pass away and have time to recognize that she was gone. I honestly, don't think I would be able to handle having my deceased dog's body in my house. It would be too heartbreaking for me, but I also wouldn't want one of dogs to ever have to go through what maltese did. It's a really tough decision and thankfully I don't have to think about it anytime soon.

 

[Chris]

My Thoughts of Dogs, Death, Dying and Grief

This may take a while, but I think this discussion thread is profound and important.

I worked as a Hospice nurse for several years in the 1990s. During that time, we always made sure, if the family agreed, that the family pet was permitted to visit the person who died so that they knew that the loved one was truly gone. Prior to having Shelties, while I was in the military and moving a lot, we kept pet rats, usually two at a time. When dear Riley died, my vet told me to make sure that Duke was allowed to sniff her and know she was gone. he also warned me that rats had been known to grieve to death, so I would need to give Duke even more attention and care in the coming months. It was evident that he was sad -- quiet, a bit off his food, and wanting to be cuddled. He recovered in time with love and care.

When my DS joined our family, she brought with her Bear the Big Red Dog. Several years later, Layla and Bits joined the family. When Bear became too ill to enjoy life, we asked our vet, Keith, to come to the house. Bear enjoyed a feast of all the good things he couldn't have: filet mignon, bacon, and chocolate cake. Keith came at 6 pm. He petted Bear ("He's such a nice dog.") and made sure we all were ready; then he slipped into Bear's vein the key to Rainbow Bridge. Layla and Bits sat close by as we all three held Bear and kissed him on his way. Keith waited with us until we had said our final farewells. We gave him a bottle of wine for toasting Bear, all hugged, and closed the evening with the burial. Both Bits and Layla clearly shared our sadness and loss.

When Lassie, the Collie of my dreams, became too frail to walk after eighteen glorious months as the Queen of nattering Springs, we again called Keith. Lassie had a feast of pad thai, shared by Layla, Bits and Annie Laurie. Again, the Shelties stood with us as we sang Lassie over the Bridge.

For several weeks after Lassie's death, Bits would priodically walk to the netrance to Lassie's room and stand looking at the place where she always lay. Her demeanor was the same as it was when she'd go visit Lassie. We became convinced that Lassie was continuing her habit of doing exactly what she wanted and taking her own sweet time to do it. She lingered for a while, and all the Shelties paid occasional visits until she decided to check out the green and deer-filled fields of Rainbow Bridge, where pad thai grows on trees and the rabbits run slowly.

I have seen a lot of death in my life. What I have learned is that we know so little about it. Perhaps we might consider accepting what we see in our beloved companions. If it appears to be grief, the most likely explanation is that it is.

May all our furkids live long and joyful lives!

 

[Silaria]

Personally, I'd have to say it really depends on the animal. We all know that every one of them has a different personality; more withdrawn, outgoing, playful, diva, etc. Those individual personalities probably play a factor in how they handle a companion's passing; which is really the same for us - we all handle grief differently because of our personalities.

Great post Silaria, and really interesting thoughts.

I was thinking more about this and I think it does have to do, at least in part, with the individual personality of the dog. My Finnish Spitz's companion was a Malamute-mix named Candy. Candy was my first dog and a rescue.

When we had to PTS Candy, Mel really didn't change very much. Mel's personality was rather aloof and cat-like; which is very much part of the Finnish Spitz personality. She was the diva and we often joked Mel was the Popular Head Cheerleader stereotype who only had time for you if she wanted to be bothered or you were useful. (Please don't take that the wrong way. Mel was a sweet girl and I would give up the experience of having her in my life for anything.) Sure, she looked for Candy but it didn't take a noticeable length of time to be her closer to normal self again. (Mel was 13.5yo when we had to say good bye to Candy.)

Mel was an "only" dog for almost 2 years before Edan came home.

Then we look at Edan and how a 1.5yo Sheltie reacted to loosing a companion; more than that really - he'd never been an "only" dog. He went from the pack at the breeders to our house with Mel. He wasn't an "only" until we lost Mel. Even though the interaction wasn't the same as two dogs playing, Mel did keep an eye on the little pup and taught him some of the rules of the house. You've already read what happened to Edan so I won't rehash that again.

But, we have two different dogs. Both of whom had their companion leave for the vet's office and not return. Both of whom reacted to it differently.

Its not a scientific study of their behavior but it is interesting to note the dichotomy.

 

[k9kreationz]

I too had to go home and hug my dogs and told Miko he has to live at LEAST another 10 years. Has any Shelties lived to 22? Oh well. And honestly, I know this is bad, but I can't read the Rainbow Bridge threads. It breaks my heart. I'm not ready to give up Miko yet. Not even close.

Silaria, thanks for the explanation about Edan. I didn't realize Mel was 17 yo. Hugs to you about that, but yay about Edan. And I agree with personality and how people and dogs (animals in general too) grieve. We're all different and have had different upbringings.

Chris, thank you for your story too.

I think we all see that we all would handle it differently. Because Miko has grown up alone, I can't see that he'd grieve too much if by chance Koji went first. But since Koji has always had a littermate of some sort, and loves his big brother and dislikes being away from him, I can only guess at how he'll grieve. I mean, he's gets separation anxiety if hubby or I take Miko out to do his business. He will whine the entire time and ignore me completely us. I worry for him now.

I really hate thinking about my pups going, but alas, I can only imagine the heart ache Silaria went through. It'd break my heart to see Koji like that. Again, so happy Edan is playing again, I can't imagine the joy you feel. So, I want to do what I can to ease Koji's grieving.

Maybe I am attributing too many human emotions to dogs (again, don't wolves just walk away from the pack to die alone?), but at the same time, I want them to grieve in a healthy way. It would kill me to watch Koji constantly looking for Miko.

 

[Bellesmom]

Well, I have had dogs go away and never come home and I have had my vet come over and put a dog down at our home.

The easiest (if this situation could be easy by any sense) was having the vet come to our home. It is not hokey at all. Actually, since our first dog got put down at home, we had two more done this way over the years. The dog is not stressed at all. We usually have the vet put them down in their dog bed, right where they are laying. We definitely let all the other dogs come up and smell the dog after they are gone. We mourn the dog in our home, with our other dogs. If I had to put a dog down again, I would do it no other way. I cannot stress how peacefully this is for the dogs. When they are at peace, it somehow eases our pain just a bit.

The dogs that we took away to be put down or died at the vet, my other dogs have looked for them and most definitely mourned them.

I know it sounds weird, but they know. They really know and when you have two dogs that are best friends, I feel I owe it to them to let them see their friend, know what has happened, and go on with their life.

rethinking my other post about them not understanding death, I think that probably if they see their doggy friend, they would understand that their friend is dead. on the other hand, if their friend is taken to the vet and just disappears than I don't think they would understand that their friend is dead, just that they are missing and they would grieve and look for them..