Just When Things are Going really welll......(another long rant)

hmmm, sounds like abused domestic relationship to me....
Maybe Ellie is just not meant to be a house pet and needs to live on a farm and do the job to keep her energy and frustration down...
I would think it really wise to consider placing her with your trainer permanently...
 
SheltieChe said:
hmmm, sounds like abused domestic relationship to me....
Maybe Ellie is just not meant to be a house pet and needs to live on a farm and do the job to keep her energy and frustration down...
I would think it really wise to consider placing her with your trainer permanently...
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WHAT?!? You are kidding, right? "Abused domestic relationship"? Please explain what you mean by that, because I am jumping to allllll sorts of conclusions.

I wasn't serious about giving her to my trainer, it was my frustration talking and I thought people here would know that after my 2 years of posting my trials with Ellie. I shouldn't have taken that for granted. I was not serious.
I will not re-home Ellie, Ever. Never. Ever. I love her beyond measure. You don't re-home your own child because you can't figure out how to help them. You help them. It may be trial and error, but you help them. That's how I feel about Ellie. She's like a child that I am struggling to understand.
 
There have been some really good suggestions and observations made here, Lahree. As with everything, you must take away what you think is worth trying with Ellie that might work for you, and discard the rest. It's really hard when we don't know the person, and don't know the dog. I know how much you've done for Ellie in her young life, and how much she means to you so don't ever think those of us who've followed her from puppyhood think anything else.

I'm so sorry you're having these behavioral problems with her. One observation I'd make though, is to ask whether your trainer is experienced with *Shelties*. We all know the breed is much different from many, and requires different training methods and cues. Perhaps you can look around and try to find a trainer who is...look up a few local breeders through the ASSA if necessary and they can steer you in the right direction. Frequently, even a breeder who's worked with Shelties for a long time can give you some help.

It certainly isn't worth giving up on her, although I sure understand your frustration. Don't think that Ellie doesn't sense that too...they can feel what's going on at the other end of the leash! Unfortunately, it contributes to how they react. I do think some Sheltie-based hands-on help is the way to go for you.

If all else fails, do consult with your vet. Sometimes there's a physical reason for this kind of thing and some medication might make all the difference. Good luck, hang in there, and remember we're here for you!
 
Ann said:
There have been some really good suggestions and observations made here, Lahree. As with everything, you must take away what you think is worth trying with Ellie that might work for you, and discard the rest. It's really hard when we don't know the person, and don't know the dog. I know how much you've done for Ellie in her young life, and how much she means to you so don't ever think those of us who've followed her from puppyhood think anything else.

I'm so sorry you're having these behavioral problems with her. One observation I'd make though, is to ask whether your trainer is experienced with *Shelties*. We all know the breed is much different from many, and requires different training methods and cues. Perhaps you can look around and try to find a trainer who is...look up a few local breeders through the ASSA if necessary and they can steer you in the right direction. Frequently, even a breeder who's worked with Shelties for a long time can give you some help.

It certainly isn't worth giving up on her, although I sure understand your frustration. Don't think that Ellie doesn't sense that too...they can feel what's going on at the other end of the leash! Unfortunately, it contributes to how they react. I do think some Sheltie-based hands-on help is the way to go for you.

If all else fails, do consult with your vet. Sometimes there's a physical reason for this kind of thing and some medication might make all the difference. Good luck, hang in there, and remember we're here for you!
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Thank you, Ann. My trainer breeds and raises Shelties and has competed in obedience with Shelties for over 30 years. That's why I selected her. I really did my homework before choosing to go that route and go with that particular trainer. I met with her three times in person and talked endless hours and traded endless emails until I decided it was the right fit for Ellie. Ellie adores her trainer.

Even though I get frustrated at Ellie, I will never give up on her. The more I read and the better educated I get, the more I am able to make those decisions on what to do and incorportate into Ellie's life. She is over my head, so I just have to "find a new normal."
 
It sure sounds like you're doing all the right things, Lahree. I'm so glad to hear your trainer is experienced with Shelties. Keep at it and be persistent! Ellie will give in and be a good dog soon!! You just have to outlast her. :yes:
 
Ann said:
It sure sounds like you're doing all the right things, Lahree. I'm so glad to hear your trainer is experienced with Shelties. Keep at it and be persistent! Ellie will give in and be a good dog soon!! You just have to outlast her. :yes:
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LOL! :lol:
 
Lahree, the link you posted is really good information and sounds like it fits your situation with Ellie to a 'T'. I also highly recommend Patricia McConnell's book. I haven't read that specific one, but everything I've ever read from her is spot on and takes the dog's point of view into consideration.

There's great wisdom in your decision to avoid the trigger situation for a good period of time. Use that time to continue to develop your working relationship with Ellie and sharpen your observation skills and reaction timing.

It's not exactly the same thing, but Phebe is a very responsive dog on the Agility course. Pair that with a handler who has a very low body awareness (some people refer to it as klutzy :wink2:) and you have match made in hell. I've learned more from our mistakes than I'll ever learn from our successes. I have to always remember that her gas pedal and brakes require only the lightest touch and her steering is like that of a Ferrari. If I can just learn to make the top half and the bottom of half of my body say the same thing all the time, we'll be golden.

Does Ellie ever tug? If Phebe were acting like this, I would be tempted to put a tug in front of her face when she escalated and then engage in a brief, but satisfying, tug session. My goal would be to move her focus from the other dog to me and still give her a physical outlet for any frustration, fear or aggression without a fight or flight response.

This is just me thinking out loud -- so don't take it as anything more than that.
 
Lahree said:
....
Even though I get frustrated at Ellie, I will never give up on her. The more I read and the better educated I get, the more I am able to make those decisions on what to do and incorportate into Ellie's life. She is over my head, so I just have to "find a new normal."
...
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YES, EXACTLY!
and you will, I promise
 
Phebe*DD said:
Lahree, the link you posted is really good information and sounds like it fits your situation with Ellie to a 'T'. I also highly recommend Patricia McConnell's book. I haven't read that specific one, but everything I've ever read from her is spot on and takes the dog's point of view into consideration.

There's great wisdom in your decision to avoid the trigger situation for a good period of time. Use that time to continue to develop your working relationship with Ellie and sharpen your observation skills and reaction timing.

It's not exactly the same thing, but Phebe is a very responsive dog on the Agility course. Pair that with a handler who has a very low body awareness (some people refer to it as klutzy :wink2:) and you have match made in hell. I've learned more from our mistakes than I'll ever learn from our successes. I have to always remember that her gas pedal and brakes require only the lightest touch and her steering is like that of a Ferrari. If I can just learn to make the top half and the bottom of half of my body say the same thing all the time, we'll be golden.

Does Ellie ever tug? If Phebe were acting like this, I would be tempted to put a tug in front of her face when she escalated and then engage in a brief, but satisfying, tug session. My goal would be to move her focus from the other dog to me and still give her a physical outlet for any frustration, fear or aggression without a fight or flight response.

This is just me thinking out loud -- so don't take it as anything more than that.
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"Low body awareness!" I love it!

I ordered the book and am very excited to get it. I also ordered Ellie some of the doggie puzzles to get her mind working when she is at home.

Ellie loves a game of tug! Maybe that would be helpful. Thanks for suggesting it!
 
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