Selecting a breeder

[mbfrench]

Geeshh..

I totally have to agree with Lovely & Smudge replies in defense of what every one is saying about BYB.

I don't give a frippin thing about show dogs,I don't care about the huge coats. Prior to me being a member of this forum,I knew squat about sheltie standards,or agility,health issues or behavioral. I have learned so much from every one.I have sat for hours on end reading past threads in years prior. And all have been helpful. But did it make my decision sway about getting a puppy from Granite,just because she doesn't show her dogs any differant..nada~nope..not!

All I know is this,I am comfortable with my relationship with Granite. I feel as if I know her so very well,as she has opened up her home to share the daily happenings of this last litter,and also in previous litters. She's straight forward,she has answered all of my questions,and has been immensely helpful with any concerns or questions I have asked her. I know she has a geneuine love for the sheltie,and to be honest is very knowledgable of the breed. Just because she does not show her dogs,or is involved in agility,or whatever does not make her dogs any less desireable to someone.

The word or thought "BYB" never crossed my mind,when I first contacted Granite about purchasing a pup. I wanted a sheltie for companionship.And I have wanted one for a long time. I really think it quite unfair of some to berade & bombard Granite about her breeding philosophy,what she does as far as testing,what she charges for her puppies,the list is endless,and I have read every post. And I have had to really curb the desire & bite my tongue.

I had no desire to deal with someone that thought they were holier than thou,as was phrased quite nicely. What I was looking for, I found that and more in Granite,a beautiful family,wonderfully socialized dogs & puppies.

I'll be getting another from Granite,and she knows that,when the time comes~
And at the risk of some maybe to email me privately..please don't,because I'm really close to having a button pushed,and I do not want to have a NY moment with anyone.
End of discussion~

 

[Lovely]

I'd actually be kind of hesitant to put a deposit on a dog. I had no idea people did that. It seems kind of shady. Why would I not pay you in full all at once?

The deposit is generally to weed out people who aren't serious about purchasing a puppy. That way when the breeder thinks all the pups have homes waiting for them - they generally do. It makes people think twice about whether they are actually ready. For Pierre, we paid at the time of purchase (we took him home at 10 weeks), but for Duncan, she wanted a deposit (we picked him out at 5 weeks). I think that for many people, it splits up the financial part and is actually helpful. Since my breeder knew me, I didn't have to give the deposit right there (I actually forgot my checkbook - silly me), and I mailed it to her the next day. I did sign a contract that day though (with a note about deposit on its way) - guaranteeing me the pup we bonded with, price, and health stipulations. Protects both sides, I think.

 

[mbfrench]

I was quite comfortable doing a deposit,when asked. At least then I knew I was going to get the puppy I wanted. My balance which is not much will be givin to Granite on Sunday.
I have for the last almost two months,been sending Granite funds as I had them. We are on a very tight budget here,so sending money as I could was the easiest way for me to pay for Trapp. Instead of paying in full on the home coming day.

 

[missjenneygirl]

I am excited for all of you getting your new puppies from Granite. My comments are just general information. It's like we are arguing over a Ford or a Chevrolet. I have said it before, there is a dog for everyone. The End.

 

[Smudge]

I just didn't know people did it. How much of the total amount is the deposit, usually? Half? I learn something new every day on here. I picked Smudge out. I did reserve him, but I didn't have to put a deposit down. I didn't put a deposit down on Gizmo, either. How crazy! Gizmo actually came from a very nice family. Their shelties were family pets. We wanted to get another dog from those same people, but it's been over 11 years since then. We misplaced their number.

 

[BarbV]

I am excited for all of you getting your new puppies from Granite. My comments are just general information. It's like we are arguing over a Ford or a Chevrolet. I have said it before, there is a dog for everyone. The End.

Connie,

I have to agree with you, both with this post and your previous post.

Let's face it...there are breeders and then there are breeders. While I tend to prefer to work with breeders of show pups (because I know they have their eye on ideal Sheltie characteristics, I will always choose the breeder who genuinely loves her pups and wants to track their progress. But it's not about "show" per se. It's about quality. Let's not confuse the good breeders with the movie "Best in Show".

A case in point is Bacca's breeder. We email regularly, and she keeps asking me to drive Bacca out so that she can see him. She has pictures of Bacca on her website. When Bacca got sick, she wanted to know everything. Not just because of her concern for her line, but also because of her concern for her pup!

That being said, I'll take a BYB over a show breeder who didn't qualify ME before buying. If they don't scrutinize me, then I'm not interested.

 

[Ann]

Baffled

I have read and reread this thread, and I have not found a word anywhere that criticizes Granite, her puppies, or her breeding. As the moderator, I am baffled at the snarkiness and defensiveness in some of the recent posts.

We all love and enjoy Granite, who has been on this Forum a very long time. No one has said otherwise, and to imply that anyone has is not fair to the Forum or to Granite. This thread has been an informed and intelligent discussion about breeding. If you cannot contribute to it, please do not weigh in.

 

[Lightplum]

thanks Ann

I too thought I missed a post or two because I also did not see any jump on granite, I think we can all say she does a wonderful job raising puppies and has a very big heart towards her dogs.
The topic of this thread was choosing a breeder, with that being said I think there were wonderful suggestions thrown out there to consider and ask when looking for a breeder.
Whether you choose to get your dog from a "BYB" or a show home, its always best to do your research. The majority of the time Show breeders will do more testing on their stock than BYB and will know their lines forward and back-wards and what to breed with to try to achieve that all elusive perfect sheltie, we use the standard as a tool to improve the breed. Does that make all Show breeders perfect, NO. Sadly there are some snooty high on their horse people in the breed. That is a dangerous place to be. You can become complacent and that makes you no better than Joe smoe breeding his dogs. I have been very fortunate in purchasing puppies from great breeders. I know that if I ever have a question I can either call or email and they will be happy to help. The most important thing is to do your "leg work" before purchasing your puppy.
When breeding dogs its all about education. Its an evolving process each generation of dogs is different from the past one, sometimes better some times worse. That is why its important to know what you are producing and what direction you want to bring the breed.
Either way what ever route you choose to go just make sure you are educated or you could end up shelling out alot of $$$ and alot of heartache.
and just a PS, cant remember how it was worded but WE ARE VERY PROUD OF OUR CHAMPIONS that we own. It takes alot of hard work, and devotion to get that CH on our dogs!

 

[sable]

My boy came from a BYB. I attended a bridal shower and as I have said he was my prize. I was looking for temperment, and found him. I wanted a sheltie and my sister walked me over and said look what you found. Dam, the sire, and three out of the four pups were there.

This was the first litter and the last. They really had a nice line and did their homework and felt the dam and the sire was worthy to breed. AKC pup.

My girl came from a breeder, she was small, so she was sold as a companion. AKC pup.

I ask lots of questions. I check and ask around about complaints. I use my thoughts on what I am looking for, my grandpappy's myths, and the chats I had with my vet. I'll be honest when my heart melts, and there is the pup, and everything I want, I use more of my grandpappy's myths. I take my pup directly to the vet from the seller. Then he gives me heck, I used my heart, not my head, and then tells me I made a great choice. OMG its so much fun!!! I feel so fortunate.

AKC papers: It shows they are pure sheltie, it should say the breeder has integrity, and good business ethics. That the breeder cares about her companions as much as his/her show dogs. The main thing is that the breeder treats the buyer, like they would want to be treated. Not only in a contract, what the sellers promises verbally they should deliver. Its a business deal, a transaction, an agreement between two people.

Good luck on your find, its a shame Janet has sold all her pups. Talk about fun videos, and watching her pups grow up. One can not designate her to a category like a BYB, she is in a special catagory all her own. Granite's Singing Puppies. Great time granite!!! We had the honor of seeing pups on this site growing up, where so many other potential buyers do not have that advantage. Thanks for all the moments with your beautiful pups.

 

[graydawntreader]

Really? Must be herding dogs? You pretty much wiped out most Sheltie breeders (probably the point). I would rather my Sheltie didn't obsessively herd me, my cats, or future children (well, that one is a little inevitable). I want a companion with a need to please, not necessarily a need to round 'em up. But that's me. Original breeding purposes are not my purpose.

Of course every dog won't make it in the show ring! My 'failed show prospect' comment meant just that - the ones that don't cut it for breeding and showing.

To be more specific, I would look for a HIC (Herding Instinct Certificate) tittle. If they are never put into herding beyond that, that is perfectly fine with me as long as they also work in some canine sport like Agility. Bottom line is, the dog has to be able to work without falling apart.
And the herding instinct? It's part of the Sheltie breed. The breed needs a job, that's the whole point. And just as a show breeder has puppies that would never make show dogs, those who breed for herding ability will have puppies that would never be able to herd.

I don't believe that show dogs are better pets, not by any stretch of the imagination. I'd just prefer that dogs used for breeding fit the standard exceptionally well, because it helps keep the breed consistent. That's the benefit of purebreds, you can more or less know what you are getting. Without a standard, the breed would be too varied for one to know what to generally expect.
Non-show breeder does not equal BYB. I have never believed otherwise on that point. We all have different definitions, but a BYB is basically someone who breeds for money, does not thoroughly genetically health test, and who does not breed to keep the breed healthy.

My information on responsible breeding is the result of three+ years of research, and it's meant to be helpful.