Tully's not doing well

That is good news about Tully, Caro, but I really would keep Kismet away from her until she's healed since I assume she has stitches or staples. She needs time to heal and not being jumped on, even though Kismet is just being a puppy.

What a shame about Kismet. Overbites and underbites are tough and I've never known one to outgrow that but you can hope. I'm surprised when you met with the handler she didn't pick up on it. Everyone I know has been down the road of having a failed show puppy. Shelties are notorious for that unfortunately. I've never been able to move one on either. Once they're here, they're family. They tell me that makes me a terrible show person but I don't care. They're pets first, show dogs second. Kismet is a great little dog and will bring you years of joy.
 
I must admit, I had Tully confined at first but have been letting her out most of the time, the puppy was jumping in and out of the x-pen but after a scolding for landing on Tully she stopped doing it. Kismet is worst first thing in the morning so I guess I better get Tully into the pen when we first get up.

Ann - it was actually the instructor at show dog training that mentioned about a possible overbite, that's why I asked the vet to check it. Breeder is so apologetic and quite devastated, she's thinking of scrapping that line now. On the positive side, Kismet is a crazy bouncer so will make a great agility dog if I can ever walk properly again. I hate to say it, but sometimes I wish I didn't rescue Della, she has so many problems and is so difficult. I felt so sorry because no one wanted her.
 
Caro, your breeder is right to scrap that line. Bite issues are genetic and once it's in the line, unless you can isolate exactly where it came from, will recur. None of the puppies from that litter should be bred either. It's not just a cosmetic fault, it can cause problems for the dog down the road too. Kismet's looks like it's minor enough that she'll be OK, but others may not be so lucky. It's a really tough fault to have pop up in your line.
 
Ann said:
Caro, your breeder is right to scrap that line. Bite issues are genetic and once it's in the line, unless you can isolate exactly where it came from, will recur. None of the puppies from that litter should be bred either. It's not just a cosmetic fault, it can cause problems for the dog down the road too. Kismet's looks like it's minor enough that she'll be OK, but others may not be so lucky. It's a really tough fault to have pop up in your line.
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Funny you mention that Ann...Piper has lance canines and I recall his breeder mentioning to me that the owners of Piper's sire had him neutered (he was a Grand Champion in both Canada and US by then I think) and she was quite shocked that they did that (she had used the dog for stud). I hadn't said anything to her but my understanding now is that with lance canines its in the line and that none of those dogs should be bred. She did keep 2 girls from Piper's litter as well as one male. Am I correct in this or is it only the affected dog that cant be bred
 
Piper's mom said:
Funny you mention that Ann...Piper has lance canines and I recall his breeder mentioning to me that the owners of Piper's sire had him neutered (he was a Grand Champion in both Canada and US by then I think) and she was quite shocked that they did that (she had used the dog for stud). I hadn't said anything to her but my understanding now is that with lance canines its in the line and that none of those dogs should be bred. She did keep 2 girls from Piper's litter as well as one male. Am I correct in this or is it only the affected dog that cant be bred
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It's only in the line in dogs that come down from the affected dog. So if the male had the bite problem and he isn't used any more for stud, that eliminates the problem as long as none of his progeny are ever bred. The gene is present, though, in any puppies thrown by the affected dog, whether they exhibit the fault or not. The affected dog has to be removed from the breeding program. Good for your breeder for neutering that stud dog. It's a heartbreaker when you have to do that, but necessary for the health of the breed.

Sadly, breeders who don't test never know until the problem shows up in a litter and by that time, they may have used the dog for numerous litters and the fault is out there. I don't believe there's any way to test for bite issues, but other things such as MDR, hip problems and eyes can all be predicted with testing.
 
Caro said:
Kismet is 8mths old and I actually have no idea when the noses stop growing. I wonder if the overbite was the reason those puppy incisors didn't come out by themselves. Breeder is very apologetic but it is disappointing. I'm at my legal limit for dogs so won't be able to get another one to show. Of course I won't sell her on to a pet home, which is what usually happens when a dog can't be shown. Now if she stopped letting her tongue hang out through the gap she wouldn't look like such a dork!
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First off, I'm delighted Tully is doing better. Every time I open this thread I have a wee bit of concern about what I'm going to see, and only breathe normally when I read she's okay, or even that she's getting better.

As far as Kismet's overbite goes, when my eldest daughter (now 32) was an infant, in every picture we took her tongue was just partially sticking out. So tell Kismet she's in good company!
 
Ann said:
Caro, your breeder is right to scrap that line. Bite issues are genetic and once it's in the line, unless you can isolate exactly where it came from, will recur. None of the puppies from that litter should be bred either. It's not just a cosmetic fault, it can cause problems for the dog down the road too. Kismet's looks like it's minor enough that she'll be OK, but others may not be so lucky. It's a really tough fault to have pop up in your line.
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She bred the male to 2 sisters - first time breeding for them all. She kept the single males out of both litters, which is why I got another girl rather than a boy. Must be hard because she's lost 3 imports, one male died during routine dental and the other was too nervous to breed from and the bitch had only a singleton bitch puppy. Of course with Covid there will be no imports for a while and there's been no shows here since March to check out new progeny. I know from Kismet's litter one other bitch went to a show home (and the breeder kept one). It's a real shame because structurally Kismet is perfect - I had xrays and scores done myself and the ortho vet said he'd love a dog with her structure. He'd stop having shelties because he found there were too many poorly structured dogs. Just trying to organise a speciality judge to have a look to make sure.
 
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