I am spitting bullets here! Toy Shelties? Bah!

BarbV said:
Are we going to be faced with Toy Shelties in AKC, CKC, etc.in the future? Just like we have toy poodles, and toy pinshers?
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Don't forget Miniature American Shepherds! They're an FSS breed in AKC now (the first step towards full recognition). They used to be "miniature Australian Shepherds", but the AKC Aussie club pitched a fit (understandably) and they had to change the name to join FSS.

I think I would spit bullets, too, if AKC was considering FSS'ing "toy Shelties"! But Barb, you're quite correct that we have a number of "toy" and "mini" versions of larger breeds (Schnauzers, poodles, Manchester Terriers, Bull Terriers, and I'm sure there are more).
 
BarbV said:
But I think that's exactly what the so-called "toy sheltie" breeders are doing!!!!

They are routing out all the fine-boned, under-sized shelties they can find, breeding them together, until they come up with semi-consistent litters of "toys".

And that's what bothers me so much (going back to my very first post on this subject!).

Are we going to be faced with Toy Shelties in AKC, CKC, etc.in the future? Just like we have toy poodles, and toy pinshers?
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no because if you look at the toy poodles, they look exactly like their larger counterparts, same thing with the newly recognized mini aussies, they look exactly like aussies but are miniaturized. It wont happen with shelties and where they will maintain the same look. look at the ones that are toys, those breeds have been around for a substantial amount of time. They for the most part breed true each time..Shelties your lucky if you get one that is show quality in a litter and has that constant you are looking for..
without changing the whole look of the sheltie and than its no longer a sheltie you can not mini/toy them down successfully. They will get more of a pom look or something similiar to that look..
 
Lightplum said:
no because if you look at the toy poodles, they look exactly like their larger counterparts, same thing with the newly recognized mini aussies, they look exactly like aussies but are miniaturized. It wont happen with shelties and where they will maintain the same look. look at the ones that are toys, those breeds have been around for a substantial amount of time. They for the most part breed true each time..Shelties your lucky if you get one that is show quality in a litter and has that constant you are looking for..
without changing the whole look of the sheltie and than its no longer a sheltie you can not mini/toy them down successfully. They will get more of a pom look or something similiar to that look..
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I don't understand your point.....a mini-Sheltie looks like a Sheltie mut in minature, as well.

I'm not sure how you can say that it won't happen with Shelties, because its already happening!!!!!

My whole point is that we are trying to breed for that "constant" but it is being bastardized by those who try to breed otherwise.

And define breeding them down "successfully"? Who makes the call?

I say that it can and will happen unless people with influence will advocate against it.

And I maintain it would be damned shame because I can see no purpose to a toy Sheltie.

Ok, I'm off my soap box for now. Must really do some paperwork now.....
 
BarbV said:
I don't understand your point.....a mini-Sheltie looks like a Sheltie mut in minature, as well.

I'm not sure how you can say that it won't happen with Shelties, because its already happening!!!!!

My whole point is that we are trying to breed for that "constant" but it is being bastardized by those who try to breed otherwise.

And define breeding them down "successfully"? Who makes the call?

I say that it can and will happen unless people with influence will advocate against it.

And I maintain it would be damned shame because I can see no purpose to a toy Sheltie.

Ok, I'm off my soap box for now. Must really do some paperwork now.....
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yes but that was my point those mini-toy whatever they are called dont look like typical quality shelties. They have domed head and bug eyes...not a sheltie quality!
 
BarbV said:
And define breeding them down "successfully"? Who makes the call?
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Easy. In the case of the Mini-Aussies, they had their own parent club and their own registry. People were taking these Mini-Aussies (or North American Shepherds), registering with the NAS club, then ILP-ing them as Aussies with AKC. They got away with this for a while.

Then, a small red dog named Willow made the agility invitational, as one of the top 5 "Australian Shepherds" in the country, from the 12" class, while being dually registered with the other registry as a "North American Shepherd". The outcry from Aussie people was loud.

AKC basically changed the ILP requirements to say that no dog may be in the ILP program if it is registered elsewhere as a different breed. Then they gave them a choice to enter as a new breed.

As an Aussie person, I would be both pissy and happy. Pissy about these little squirt Aussies, and happy to have these people out of the Aussie world.

However, I see where you are coming from. The Alaskan Klee-Kai are shrunken down Husky/Malamute things. They have round heads, bug eyes, and never, ever shut up. I hate when I pull up the UKC show and there are 15 of them there. I park as far away as I can.
 
Lightplum said:
no because if you look at the toy poodles, they look exactly like their larger counterparts, same thing with the newly recognized mini aussies, they look exactly like aussies but are miniaturized. It wont happen with shelties and where they will maintain the same look. look at the ones that are toys, those breeds have been around for a substantial amount of time. They for the most part breed true each time..Shelties your lucky if you get one that is show quality in a litter and has that constant you are looking for..
without changing the whole look of the sheltie and than its no longer a sheltie you can not mini/toy them down successfully. They will get more of a pom look or something similiar to that look..
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the "mini Aussies" that I have seen don't look much like regular Aussies.....
not like miniature poodles that actually look like little poodles.
 
I have regular-sized, over-sized, and a tiny sheltie. I prefer the smaller shelties as you can fit more in your lap at the same time.

:biggrin2:
 
I've had 6 shelties so far in my life. Now we're moving to a senior retirement place and they have a 20 lb. limit on dog size. Luckily, Buddy will barely get under, but get under he will. After Buddy goes, I'll be looking for a tiny sheltie...don't know how I'd live without a sheltie.
Dayle
 
I don't know how to respond here. Except no! :(

Its one thing to have a runt that is smaller, but to breed purposefully for small size, i.e. tea cup shelties.....No again.....sorry!
 
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