Maybe Positive-Only isn't always the answer

What bothers me about this article is the author claims people who abide by AF, resort to euthanasia if AF doesn't work. So, the author is suggesting they should be offering the dog corrections with a prong collar, so the dog understands what it is doing wrong.

My problem with this is the author never mentions that instead of correcting your dog, you can redirect your dog and reward him for what you want him to do instead of being aggressive. Clicker training is a great way to do this. So for example your dog lunges at other dogs while walking, instead of using a prong collar to self correct your dog, play the "look at that" game.

Or if your dog barks when the bell rings, train your dog to go to a mat when he hears the bell.

There are other positive training approaches you can do if just praising good behavior and ignoring unwanted behaviors doesn't work. I personally prefer training your dog to do something else when it sees or hears a trigger instead of being aggressive. This is important for shelties, who are working dogs. They need a job. They need something do.

I know some people who carry a target stick with them and train their dog to nose touch it when they see another dog.

When I tried correcting my dog, it only made her more aggressive because she associated the correction with the evil thing that was already making her aroused.

Also, there is medication if your dog is severally aggressive. If you find the right medication, training will be easier. There are also plenty of natural alternatives out there like lactium, rescue remedy, L'theanine, thundershirts, etc.

This author doesn't suggest an alternative besides correcting your dog and we all know there are many more positive options.
 
I'm not entirely sure how the prong collar relates to a dog being attacked and its owner reacting. If the owner is stringing her dog up to remove it from a fight situation, it doesn't matter what collar is on the dog. The prong collar may have been insignificant to the situation, it could well have been the owners reaction the dog was reacting to. We really don't know. Maybe that dog was overly soft, and the owner freaking out was enough.

Of course I have this same problem with the whole harness thing in agility. Please stop with the tuggy-tuggy out of control BCs on harnesses that can't walk on a leash. That makes me nuts. Just teach the dog to walk nicely, how hard is that for these MACH handlers?? Grumble.

that drives me nuts too. If you train your dog for 40 sec of performance in the ring can you please spare time to train proper behavior outside of the ring:rolleyes2:
On prong collars I do not like to do any training with them because of self correction issues. Due to being at facility where we train I have got lots of experience working with reactive dogs, timing is everything there. I do not want that dog to self correct. Just going to skyrocket that aggression out of proportions and I would not even know what that dog associated that correction with...
I understand that senior lady who was given a present from her family Samoyed might need to use one for physical reasons... but other than that:no:
 
The problem was that the woman, in trying to get her setter out of harms way, gave a huge jerk back in reaction to the dog going for hers. Not only did the setter get an inadverdant correction it got a hard pinch correction. I didn't blame the owner at all - she was reacting to her dog being attacked but even a normal correction collar would have been better than prongs moving together on that dog's neck.
I repeat, they are still often seen on service dogs and I can only believe that it is because of the necessity of instantaneous obedience required. Seldom would we need that amount of control of our pets.
 
that drives me nuts too. If you train your dog for 40 sec of performance in the ring can you please spare time to train proper behavior outside of the ring

I am in 100% agreement. How many dogs do I see that are fabulous in the obedience ring but only in the obedience ring. Once they are outside that forum they are out of control, rude dogs. When I started in obedience it was to teach my dog to be well mannered and civilized. Now it seems that a lot of people are only teaching their dogs enough to win ribbons.
 
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Jessica, I am sure your corrections are not hard and are effective, at least to some degree. But question still remains- why do you have to give your puppy these corrections at all? WHY your puppy is slow to sit? WHY your puppy breaks on long sits and downs? What can you do/ change/ reevaluate in your training that you get those fast sits? and sit stays that are remain sit stays until told otherwise? I am not saying that dog should never be corrected or receive occasional punishment of some sorts... I am saying WHY are you building corrections into your training program? Have you thought are there any other ways you can get that behavior?
Science tells us that dogs do what is reinforcing for them... so fast sit does not carry same value for your dog as you want it to be... whose problem is it? Your dog just giving your feedback that fast sits are not a requirement for him... It is just a feedback from a dog... why jerk his leash and correct as opposed to stop and think and come up with new plan to make those sits fastest sits ever?
And I really do not mean you as you as I have no idea what your training methodologies are. I am meaning "you" more general as people who still use corrections AS PLANNED part of their training because that is what I believe OP article is about...

My "puppy" is a 3 y/o intact dog. Usually if he is slow to sit it is because something is distracting him, like say a female :lol: I dont usually carry treats with me. I dont want to have a pocket fll of crumbs all the time, and after this long he should be able to respond immediatly. But like I said its not a hard jerk at all and most of the time he doesnt need it, and i dont expect him to be a robot he is after all a family member! And of course I am quilty of loosing my temper and yelling shut up when all 5 of them are barking at someone that dares to walk by our yard with a dog. :o I am after all only human and make mistakes.

I just wanted to point out that a lot of times things are taken to the extreme when it comes to dog training.
 
I dont want to have a pocket fll of crumbs all the time, and after this long he should be able to respond immediatly.

ha ha, following this logic after 30 years of working at same place I should be working there for free... right?:wink2:
 
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No, agility people in this area have been told time and time again by experts not to use any harness that cuts across the shoulder blades. It restricts the dogs front movement (obviously, that's the design), but that causes the dogs to not extend all the way, which is not good for agility.

how odd...!! and interesting. Obviously you'd take it off for training, in the house and at the trial ring...
I know lots of agility people here who use that harness and their dogs are amazing...
But for me my dog is my companion first then my agility competitor... so I really want to train a dog to not be a rude out of control pain in the butt :D
worked very hard (and still am) to work with T's reactivity issues, but he has come so far... but he's NOT rude or out of control
 
This is a very interesting article. Essentially, the author is proposing that a trainer actually needs to think, to consider the situation, the needs of the dog, the dog's history -- to weigh rationally the issues at hand. I can think of very few universal practices, and dog training is not one of them.

For instance...

Beckon had fear aggression issues that positive training wasn't helping. I took him to a class where prong collars were used correctly (yes, there is a correct way). We used it only in class -- judiciously, never roughly -- just enough so he could feel something quickly. One session -- no more problem that could not be managed by a simply "Leave it." He learned he had a leader he could hear, feel and trust.

Now I know some of you may be horrified. I'm sorry if you are shocked and disappointed. But you know what? Beckon can now leave the house and be with other dogs without being a problem. When he gets spooked, I can manage him by voice. He no longer acts in a way that could provoke a fight. He is a happy, well-adjusted boy who, though he will always be shy, can now compete in Rally, go places, and "be all that he can be."

Would I ever use this approach on Layla, Annie or Bits? Not in a million years -- not because it is a "cruel and inhumane" practice, bur because for these dogs, it would be inappropriate. They had different training needs.

You go, Colonel Underpants.

Sandstorm here;
You go Colonel Underpants!!!
 
Sargent Sandstorm! My Mom says she will never ever use a prong collar again. I was not hurt, but this makes me happy! She can learn! She is a good Mom.
Colonel Underpants
 
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