My Anxious Shelties - Toby and Ginny - Updates on their Progress

Let's hear it for people keeping it real!!! What a relief for you Melissa and I am happy for your happiness.

Looking forward to posts about how things have changed for the positive.


Kate
 
OntarioSheltie said:
I spoke to a second homeopath last night for the heck of it, someone that my Naturopathic Dr. recommended (as oppose to the one he knew of who was so rude to me).

This lady was wonderful! A completely different experience to the one I had earlier yesterday. She was very friendly and happy to answer my questions. She's not as experienced as the other person and has never treated a patient's dog, but she said she's used homeopathic remedies on her own animals and specializes in anxiety and depression.

In short, she said she'd LOVE (her words) to try and help Toby and seemed genuinely excited about the idea. She's going to charge me a fraction of what the other person was for Toby's treatments and said that it would be fine if we communicated primarily through email instead of requiring me to make an appointment.

I'm really looking forward to giving this a try. Fingers crossed that it works for Toby. It would be so amazing if he could live like a normal dog without requiring medication.
Click to expand...

Wonderful news!

Sounds like an answer to prayer to me.
 
Melissa, that is wonderful news. I hope Toby sees positive results for it. Like you, I'd love to see him have a more normal life.
 
I spoke to the sheltie rescue...Long Post

The lady that I spoke to about Toby was very nice, but I left the conversation feeling a bit frustrated.

Through no fault of hers, I felt kind of put on the spot and despite everything I've been through with Toby, couldn't give her any good examples that REALLY described his behavior. I felt like I couldn't really make her understand just how anxious he was and how much it affected his life, I just made him sound like a regular sheltie that barks at sounds or tries to chase traffic. I felt like i was having a complete and total BRAIN FART. :dead: I emailed her some info today that should clear things up for her.

She reiterated a few times that the dogs they've had who did require anxiety medication were able to come off of it eventually, but that Toby could be the exception, that 1 in 300 dog that needs to be on it for life.

The more I think about it, the more I think that maybe Toby would do better with a family in a rural area. I don't think while he's living with us that he'll ever be able to come off of his medication, but that may be possible if he's in a different environment. This makes me wonder if she might suggest to other members of the rescue that Toby be taken out of our home for his own well being. :( Please understand, nothing was said to me about taking Toby out of our home, this is just a conclusion I'm coming to again on my own. I really want what's best for him.

Anyway, at the same time she was very supportive, should Toby need to remain on medication and told me that my vet is COMPLETELY off base about the online pharmacy I tried to get his medication from. She said that the rescue uses them regularly. This made me feel MUCH better, my vet made me feel like I'd totally lost my mind.

The sheltie rescue lady also agreed with me, that my vet seems a little out of her element and that I should probably seek a vet with more experience with long term anxiety treatments. She thinks that the vet in the US is a great idea and encouraged me to call them to verify that the vets there do have experience dealing with long term anxiety in dogs.

The sheltie rescue lady also encouraged me to talk to the behaviorist again that saw Toby before and maybe have her come out to the house again at some point. I've actually signed up for a reactive dog seminar with her this weekend so I'll definitely talk to her. The rescue lady may come to the seminar with me, which I'd love!

The sheltie rescue lady is someone who's dealt with anxious dogs before, and she indicated that in her experience she's had little to no luck with natural treatments for anxiety. That being said, she didn't discourage me from seeing the homeopath either so I'm still going to give her a try. The homeopath has been in contact with me and is very enthusiastic about treating Toby and has been great about trying to work with my schedule.

Enough for now...
 
You are always ready to do whatever is best for Toby and that is the great thing about your posts Melissa, your thought process covers all bases, and your selfless care is a shining example of pure love.

I happen to think that Toby is in the right place with his right Mommy.


Kate:yes:
 
famous seamus said:
You are always ready to do whatever is best for Toby and that is the great thing about your posts Melissa, your thought process covers all bases, and your selfless care is a shining example of pure love.

I happen to think that Toby is in the right place with his right Mommy.


Kate:yes:
Click to expand...

Thanks so much Kate, that really means a lot. Dealing with Toby's anxiety has been such an ordeal, its hard some times to know what the right decision is.
 
Nervous Puppoids?

Hi!
I've been keeping up with your situation and was wondering if you've any correspondingly new radio, microwave, cell towers, power lines, or electrical transformers installed in your neighborhood? Or, do you have anything in the house which comes on (like your refridgerator) randomly when Toby gets "excited"? Are there any rotten kids in the neighborhood with a dog whistle? Some pups are sensitive to stuff we can't sense. I realize you've tried many many options to help the little guy out and share your concern. Maybe the problem is external.
Just a thought.
 
Voyager said:
Hi!
I've been keeping up with your situation and was wondering if you've any correspondingly new radio, microwave, cell towers, power lines, or electrical transformers installed in your neighborhood? Or, do you have anything in the house which comes on (like your refridgerator) randomly when Toby gets "excited"? Are there any rotten kids in the neighborhood with a dog whistle? Some pups are sensitive to stuff we can't sense. I realize you've tried many many options to help the little guy out and share your concern. Maybe the problem is external.
Just a thought.
Click to expand...

Actually, the majority of Toby's issues are external, which is why several times I've considered rehoming him. For the most part, Toby is extremely sound sensitive, particularly to city noises. This doesn't really make sense since Toby's original owners lived in an apartment located down town in a very busy city.

Here is what I recently wrote to the sheltie rescue about what I've been through with Toby. Its very long but pretty much goes over everything.

My husband and I adopted Toby in October of 2010, when he was approx. 1 1/2 years old. I was told that he was purchased at a pet store and that he came from a well known puppy mill in the US that ships puppies over the Canada/US border. I have no idea what his parent's were like or what conditions Toby lived in as a young puppy. Toby lived in an apartment with a single mom and her autistic child (son I think) in down town Scarborough. Toby was not abused but he was also never socialized as a puppy and was also never walked. Toby was only ever brought outside to relieve himself. Toby was given up in August 2010 to the Southern Ontario Sheltie Rescue. Toby lived with a foster family for two months. He was very attached to his foster 'Mom' who was considering keeping him. Toby came to live with us on October 31, 2010. Toby was a bit shy in the beginning but it took approx. 2-3 months for us to really see Toby's anxiety.

I think it would be easiest if I describe Toby's behavior before I put him on medication. The best description for his behavior would be that he had/has panic attacks. During these attacks he will race around barking, yelping and whimpering. He may also lunge, growl and bark at the thing that scared him, like he's going to try and attack. The reality is that he's an extremely gentle dog and would never bite anything, its just an attempt to intimidate what's scaring him. Its an animals Flight or Fight instinct. Other stress signal he displayed included whimpering and crying, shaking, tense body, ears back, hyper vigilance (looking around constantly), teeth grinding/chewing, panting and 'shark teeth' (the inability to take treats from me without inadvertently grabbing my fingers), 'whale eyes' (eyes big and black with the white of the eyes showing) and an inability to relax or sleep. During this time he shuts down, is unable to work (sit, lie down, etc) and will not take treats if he gets stressed enough.

During his attacks his eyes become 'glassy' and he's in such a high state of panic that he often seems to stop thinking. To snap him out of an attack I move him away from his trigger and try to get his focus on me again. Once I'd built a relationship with him, raising my voice over his barking and clapping my hands helped to snap him out of an attack also.

Once he's calmed down I may take him to his trigger (if he's reacted to something like a sign, fire hydrant) and treat him/praise him for approaching and sniffing it. But depending on the trigger this is not always possible or healthy for him. For instance, I would not try and persuade him to approach a garbage truck, unless maybe it was parked in a lot and not in use and even then only if Toby's stress levels were minimal. Toby can easily become flooded, where he becomes so stressed that he will shut down completely.

Outside in the yard and on walks.

Whenever something scared him in the yard or on our front porch he'd race around barking, yelping and whining. He would be so beside himself that he could not be caught or calmed down. As he learned to trust us he learned to run to me or into the house when he was afraid (if he he didn't get so stressed that he couldn't think), but his fear itself only improve minimally.

He could not go ouside (in the front or back yard) without barking. Even if there was no noise outside he'd have to bark to announce his arrival. He does not like the dark. Day or night, he'd have trouble settling enough to relieve himself because he was hyper-vigilant - looking around for scary things. He would not relieve himself on walks. Often he'd suddenly notice some random object he hadn't noticed before, like our neighbor's rotor antenna on their house, an old metal clothes line pole, a lantern in a neighboring yard or a spot on the wooden fence (all things that never have or never will make noise, things that are in our yard every day) and have a fit.

He could not tolerate our neighbor opening their back door for some reason (wooden door), it would send him in a frenzy. He was ok with the neighbors, just not the back door.

Traffic or metallic noises of any kind upset him. He is deathly afraid of the ice cream cart (the yellow ones with the bicycle attached). He also had trouble tolerating vans, pick-up trucks (especially pick up trucks with trailers), transport trucks, garbage trucks and construction vehicles. Pretty much anything on the road with an engine. For some reason he's reasonably tollerant of buses though. Cars set him off also, especially if they stopped near us or slowed down beside us (happens often because I have three shelties, something people don't see often). He also hates the sound of doors opening or shutting or mail boxes opening/shutting and any banging or metallic noise.

On walks he has difficulty dealing with busy areas and would bark and lunge at anything going by. Even though he was a friendly dog he'd become so stressed that he'd lunge at people and dogs walking by as well. Walking on side streets helped to a degree, but metallic noises like mail boxes still sent him into a panic. Also, avoiding high traffic areas and staying on side streets increased his fear of traffic and made him more difficult to handle when he did encounter traffic. I'd basically have to desensitize him all over again or keep him completely isolated from traffic, which was not possible.

In the house

He's afraid of everyday noises. Has trouble tolerating any kind of banging noises (a remote control put down too roughly, the sound of cutlery being put away, dropped or a spoon stirring inside a mug, banging a metal lid to remove it), the wind, the sound of water moving through pipes or someone walking around upstairs. Anything he noticed was different or out of place caused him stress. His last two Xmases with us he barked at mistle toe every day, although before he was medicated it sent him into a complete panic. He also barked continually at the hole in the kitchen ceiling when we had plumbing issues. He didn't seem to be able to stand the sight of the hole or of the sound of the water in the pipes. His reflection in certain surfaces, like our electric fire place also caused him panic. He also couldn't stand the sound of the dishwasher, the squeak the oven door made when opened or beeping noises (like the beep our full size oven or our small convection both make when they came up to temperature. Any of these sounds would upset him for hours. The few times the smoke detector went off when we were making toast caused him so much distress/trauma emotionally that he remained in a hyper anxious state for days. We had to relocate the smoke detector outside of the kitchen.

The sound of the wind blowing outside or thunder also made him a nervous wreck. A few windy days or a thunder storm would take him a week to recover from. Even the sheltie rescue picnic, which wasn't an overly stressful occasion and he enjoyed thoroughly, took him a few days to recover from. He became hyper sensitive to his surroundings so I kept him as calm as possible and stuck to side streets till he felt better.

For some reason Toby would panic and hide every morning when my husband's ride to work arrived. He could not stand either the sight or sound of the pickup truck. This behavior disappeared entirely while he was medicated but came back recently when we decreased his meds. Even though he's now on a full dose again, he still panics when he hears the truck.

Toby would move constantly. At the time I thought it was because he was a high energy dog and tried to give him extra exercise (I took up jogging so that he could be my jogging partner), but it wasn't till he was medicated that I realized it was because he was anxious. Also, wearing him out did nothing to help his panic attacks or general worry. The quicker pace at times seemed to stress him out more.

Through the use of positive training, teaching him impulse control, alternate behaviors and desensitization I was able to heighten Toby's threshold for stress, especially since he learned that he could trust me. But for such a sweet, affectionate dog he did not seem happy and worried constantly. If something really scared him, like a series of windy days, he heard thunder, garbage day or some other scary noise/event happened that I couldn't anticipate, he became so stressed that he'd be upset for days. During these times he'd become hyper sensitive to his surroundings, whimper and cry at just about any sound he heard, even things that didn't normally upset him. He would race around the house in a panic, barking, panting and crying. Often he'd wake us up at night having a panic attack at some noise we didn't hear. He'd have trouble sleeping day or night because he was so worried about what was going on around him.

The training helped a lot but I found that even though he wasn't barking or lunging as often or as upset in the house, he was still very stressed much of the time and would still whimper and cry, shake and display other stress signals like tense body, ears back, hyper vigilance (looking around constantly), teeth grinding/chewing, panting and 'shark teeth' (the inability to take treats from me without inadvertently grabbing my fingers during periods of stress. When he is not stressed he takes treats in an exceedingly gentle manner).

Things I tried:

DAP (Dog Appeasing Pheramone) Collar - http://www.drugs.com/vet/d-a-p-dog-appeasing-pheromone-collar-can.html

Aromatherapy

L-theanine - http://www.ltheanine.net/

Lactium/Zylkene (I still give this to him in conjunction with the medication)- http://www.lactium.com/uk/

Thundershirt (I still put this on him during thunderstorms or when there are loud neighborhood noises, like garbage day) - http://www.thundershirt.com/HowItWorks/

Rescue Remedy and Aspen Bach Remedy - http://www.bachflower.com/

TTouch - http://ttouch.com/

I did extensive training with Toby with an excellent trainer. We completed two basic obedience classes and an advanced obedience class, as well as had a couple of private lessons for managing his anxiety and teaching him coping skills. We also had a dog behaviorist visit our home to witness Toby's behaviors and give advice on how to handle him. All training used positive techniques (no prong or choke collars, which are primarily used for forcing obedience through domination) and included exercises for desensitizing Toby to his triggers and teaching him impulse control and alternate behaviors to than barking and lunging.

In addition to Lactium, Toby is also on 16mg of fluoxentine (prozac). Toby's life has been MUCH better since giving him Lacitum and medication, but the medication is very expensive $75/month and my vet has had me try to decrease his medication to 10mg recently because she doesn't want him on it long term, if possible. I alternated between 16mg/day and 10mg/day for a month before dropping him to 10mg/day a week ago. Toby quickly very anxious within 3 days of decreasing his medication. Currently I've increased his dose back to 16mg till he's acting like himself again.
 
Just read on a site that there might be doggie autism. Dogster is a site that gives some particulars about doggie autism including symptoms of fear that your Toby has been experiencing.

The dogster site is not vet sanctioned, nor is it conclusive however it gives a little insight into the Maybe's of Tobey's dysfunction.



kate
 
Melissa,

We've had experience with a beautiful tri when we were volunteers at a shelter. He was shy and kept to himself. A family showed up to adopt him and we placed the sweet little guy into their child's arms. The kid had a blank stare and really didn't respond to the dog, though the dog appeared to be a little trepidaceous. They returned him to the shelter a little over a month later saying that their child was bitten by the sheltie. This made no sense to us until we found out the kid was autistic. The sheltie came back totally messed up emotionally so we adopted him ourselves. It took quite awhile to calm the little guy down, for every strange noise or movement scared him to the point of barking, shaking, and trying to hide behind his mommie. He never really got over the trauma, but it did mitigate quite a bit. Patience, love, and routine were bringing him around.
Keep us posted,

Steve
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top