One sick dog.....Bacca, my boy!

[mellie]

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Barb, your honesty and openess is one of the things I look forward to when I see you have posted something. You tell it like it is. I am so sorry you have had to go through all this with Bacca, I am sure it is heartbreaking. I know that your journey will help someone else at some point.

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As for feeding, I do what has been suggested. When I have cooked something the dog and cat can eat I feed them that, but on my long days or when I am busy I feed commercial food. Don't know if this would work though because you will really have to be on top of the protien levels with the liver diet and Bacca's gut may not be able to handle the switching of foods all the time. My critters are used to this and so don't get D from it. Hang in there, I believe that by feeding him a liver diet you will see a big improvement and hopefully his skin will begin to clear up as well.

 

[Lynnel]

Skin Funk

Barb I know you were not crazy about using as red frankinsense and soverign silver but did you ever consider the funk being from yeast infection . When we rescued max he smelled like no dog I had ever had, it took me two and half years to diagnose it, none of the three vets including an allergist said a work about yeast. Now looking back because of his issues the smell would come and go depending what I was feeding him. He would rub his nose on my leather couch and I would have to wash it because it was dirty and smelled. I am just getting the carpets clean now that he is under control!!! NO GRAINS.
I hope someone helps you and Bacca very soon, I know how frustrating and scary this all is.

 

[famous seamus]

ps And Dr. Mac, too.

Of course Dr. Mac too, you caught me speedreading again. Thank you Mally!!



Hugs,
Kate

 

[Lynnel]

I just want to thank you Barb for this thread. I have followed it closely. I so feel for both you and Bacca and hope things work out. Our last 3 shelties were hypothyroid and our last fellow also had issues related to the hypothyroidism one being "skin funk" on his chest thankfully not as bad as Bacca. He passed away at age 9 of a ruptured gallbladder. I didn't know enough about the pancreatitis (liver) or gallbladder issues back then but certainly educated myself after his passing. I have definitely learned lots more through this thread so if I ever have to face any of these health issues again I will be prepared. And as everyone has said we all love you and are keeping positive thoughts for you both.

I am so sorry for your loss, but I have to ask did your fur any have sludge in his gall bladder? My max was 2.5 when I rescued him and he has slight sludge in his bladder and pancreatitus, were there any warnings before his horrible attack, and did he suffer? I am afraid every day because my guy has never charged his demenor thought all his issues, so I am so afraid I won't know if anything else is wrong.

 

[BarbV]

Barb I know you were not crazy about using as red frankinsense and soverign silver but did you ever consider the funk being from yeast infection . When we rescued max he smelled like no dog I had ever had, it took me two and half years to diagnose it, none of the three vets including an allergist said a work about yeast. Now looking back because of his issues the smell would come and go depending what I was feeding him. He would rub his nose on my leather couch and I would have to wash it because it was dirty and smelled. I am just getting the carpets clean now that he is under control!!! NO GRAINS.
I hope someone helps you and Bacca very soon, I know how frustrating and scary this all is.

Bacca's been on a grain free diet for years. And sorry to say that he still smells yeasty. I don't think grains or no grains were an issue for him at all.

I'm hoping the 2 times per week baths and 6 weeks of antibiotics will give us a chance to stabilize him for now. That being said, he has been 1 week on the antibiotics and his coat is looking a little better and smelling better too.

I do want to reinforce a couple of things that I've learned on Bacca's journey:

1) Dogs have amazing pain thresholds. They can be major sick and hurting and you might not even know it.

2) Shelties are pre-disposed to hypothryodism and gall bladder disease. The symptoms for galls bladder or stones look similar to liver disease and liver shunt disease. This makes diagnosis very difficult.

3) The decision for surgery in either gall or liver situation is huge. And it my current dilemma. There are no guarantees. Basicaly, they don't know and can't know until they go inside. Surgery could probably help, but he might not survive the surgery.

So in the meantime, my new vet and I have decided to treat him medically for as long as possible. Antibiotics, perhaps long term, reduced protein diet (still negotiating on how low I have to go, and ant-fungal baths with Nizoral (people grade shampoo)

 

[BarbV]

I have followed this whole thread. Haven't been able to add anything but have followed it.

You never know when one of our babies is going to have some kind of problem like Bacca and this gives us more understanding.

I'm always glad to read the informative threads.....like this one.

Ok, I'll keep going on this thread as long as I have something new to post. And count on the moderators to say when enough is enough.

For sure, his journey is still ongoing.....

 

[The Quahog]

Of course Dr. Mac too, you caught me speedreading again. Thank you Mally!!
Hugs,
Kate

Appreciated, but certainly not necessary.
Dr. Shelli did an excellent job of explaining why what might seem like a lower protein raw diet is actually equivalent to a 70% protein kibble, and exactly why high protein is bad for the liver. Thus explaining why for this particular condition it is contraindicated.
I knew that, of course, enough to have my 'spider sense' go off big time at proposing an all meat diet as a low protein alternative, though had grown a little hazy on the precise details. But good Continuing Education is like a good trivia question - you don't think, 'Who the heck would know that?', you smack your forehead and go 'Of course, I knew that!'
(ie Bad trivia question - What colors are on the Bolivian flag? Good trivia question - who is the only pitcher in the baseball hall of fame with a losing record? )
Dr. Shelli posts here far more than I, being involved in a lot more Sheltie activities, and her posts are wonderful.

The problem with Bacca is we don't really know exactly what he has. The consensus seems to be a low level shunt, sort of. I had a puppy that seizured constantly and was diagnosed by super specialists as having a problem where the liver capillaries were mixing the systemic and portal circulation - like a shunt at the level of the tiniest blood vessels, rather than with a larger connecting vein. Turned out after 6 months of treatments they changed their minds and said it was epilepsy after all. Classic shunts are obvious, 'low grade' shunts (whatever that means) are trickier.

So thanks for the shout out, but until a veterinarian learns he's not the important one in the room he's not much good to anybody.

 

[BarbV]

Appreciated, but certainly not necessary.
Dr. Shelli did an excellent job of explaining why what might seem like a lower protein raw diet is actually equivalent to a 70% protein kibble, and exactly why high protein is bad for the liver. Thus explaining why for this particular condition it is contraindicated.
I knew that, of course, enough to have my 'spider sense' go off big time at proposing an all meat diet as a low protein alternative, though had grown a little hazy on the precise details. But good Continuing Education is like a good trivia question - you don't think, 'Who the heck would know that?', you smack your forehead and go 'Of course, I knew that!'
(ie Bad trivia question - What colors are on the Bolivian flag? Good trivia question - who is the only pitcher in the baseball hall of fame with a losing record? )
Dr. Shelli posts here far more than I, being involved in a lot more Sheltie activities, and her posts are wonderful.

The problem with Bacca is we don't really know exactly what he has. The consensus seems to be a low level shunt, sort of. I had a puppy that seizured constantly and was diagnosed by super specialists as having a problem where the liver capillaries were mixing the systemic and portal circulation - like a shunt at the level of the tiniest blood vessels, rather than with a larger connecting vein. Turned out after 6 months of treatments they changed their minds and said it was epilepsy after all. Classic shunts are obvious, 'low grade' shunts (whatever that means) are trickier.

So thanks for the shout out, but until a veterinarian learns he's not the important one in the room he's not much good to anybody.

I love your modesty! The new vet that I found reminds me of you. He did an ultrasound of Bacca's gall bladder - no charge. He said it was for his own education. He has 2 Shelties himself and wants to learn what's up with Shelties and gall bladder.

And this is why im balking at the so called specialists. They seem to know everything without doing all the tests. Definitely a liver shunt! Ah, we'll did you actually see one? Well, no. But pay us $5000-6000 for surgery and we will open him up and THEN we will know for sure. Yeah right!

 

[famous seamus]

Appreciated, but certainly not necessary.
Dr. Shelli did an excellent job of explaining why what might seem like a lower protein raw diet is actually equivalent to a 70% protein kibble, and exactly why high protein is bad for the liver. Thus explaining why for this particular condition it is contraindicated.
I knew that, of course, enough to have my 'spider sense' go off big time at proposing an all meat diet as a low protein alternative, though had grown a little hazy on the precise details. But good Continuing Education is like a good trivia question - you don't think, 'Who the heck would know that?', you smack your forehead and go 'Of course, I knew that!'
(ie Bad trivia question - What colors are on the Bolivian flag? Good trivia question - who is the only pitcher in the baseball hall of fame with a losing record? )
Dr. Shelli posts here far more than I, being involved in a lot more Sheltie activities, and her posts are wonderful.

The problem with Bacca is we don't really know exactly what he has. The consensus seems to be a low level shunt, sort of. I had a puppy that seizured constantly and was diagnosed by super specialists as having a problem where the liver capillaries were mixing the systemic and portal circulation - like a shunt at the level of the tiniest blood vessels, rather than with a larger connecting vein. Turned out after 6 months of treatments they changed their minds and said it was epilepsy after all. Classic shunts are obvious, 'low grade' shunts (whatever that means) are trickier.

So thanks for the shout out, but until a veterinarian learns he's not the important one in the room he's not much good to anybody.

You nailed it Dr. Mac. I had a great vet once upon a time who armed himself with everything sheltie the minute we left his office. We moved or else we would still be with that vet, Dr. Joseph Smith.

Encountered two vets much the same as Barb experienced, whose egos got in the way of treating my shelties. Ego has got to be left at the door and slammed shut.

You are a gem to know that the patient comes first Dr. Mac and to all the participating vets on this forum who patiently take us through the steps to wellness again and again.


Big hugs and the biggest hug of all is for BACCA

Kate

 

[BarbV]

Bacca update. One week on the new 6 week antibiotics and 3 baths with the new shampoo - Nizarol (non-prescription anti-fungal shampoo available at the pharmacy). Bacca's skin funk seems to be under control....no new scabs. And after his medicated bath, I brushed him tonight, and only got normal Sheltie shedding in his brush.

Yippee Yi Yah! This is the best that I've seen with him for months. It's a small victory because now I'm waiting to see if his fur wil start to grow back.

I also worry about sunburn this summer. Any suggestions? (p.s. I'll also post on the Health site)